4 ms·

That's like, a full 10 years I could spend not putting up with it though. > In 2030 it will rock! Apart from _maybe_ VSCode, what has MS made that makes you g

That's like, a full 10 years I could spend not putting up with it though. > In 2030 it will rock! Apart from _maybe_ VSCode, what has MS made that makes you go "this rocks"?

hestefisk 6y ago
WSL, .Net Core?
- FridgeSeal 6y ago
  I'm ambivalent about .net as a whole, but I'll pay that one.
GordonS 6y ago
Azure DevOps, dotnet core, WSL/WSL2, SQL Server on Linux, Typescript, Powershell Core (OK, so I honestly don't like Powershell, but many do), Visual Studio (I prefer Rider, but VS is great great), Windows 10 (yes, I love it), Azure DevOps (yes, I love it, unless I have to work with one of the poorly documented services), Xbox One...
- FridgeSeal 6y ago
  Fascinating. Fair play, I'm either ambivalent or not a fan of most of those - except maybe the Xbox, I have a PS4, but the X1 is pretty nice. > Azure DevOps...one of the poorly documented services So like, all of them? Hahahaha > SQL Server on Linux Next to Azure, this is the next biggest cause of issues at work for me, and I haven't seen any wild advantage of this over Postgres, with the disadvantage that pretty much every linux/macOS and open source tool I use is much happier to plug in to Postgres instead.
  - GordonS 6y ago
    > So like, all of them? Hahahaha I really think that's unfair, untrue even. I work with a lot of services on a regular basis, and while it very frustrating to find something with missing documentation, it seems to be confined to certain services, and mostly then for new'ish features. In those cases, they are quite responsive on GitHub. > Next to Azure, this is the next biggest cause of issues at work for me, and I haven't seen any wild advantage of this over Postgres, with the disadvantage that pretty much every linux/macOS and open source tool I use is much happier to plug in to Postgres instead. I also personally prefer Postgres, and by a margin. But I have also worked with SQL Server on Linux, and haven't found any differences over SQL Server on Windows - it just works.
    - FridgeSeal 6y ago
      > I really think that's unfair, untrue even. I work with a lot of services on a regular basis, and while it very frustrating to find something with missing documentation, it seems to be confined to certain services, and mostly then for new'ish features. In those cases, they are quite responsive on GitHub. I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek here, but that is good to know they're responsive on GitHub. > But I have also worked with SQL Server on Linux, and haven't found any differences over SQL Server on Windows - it just works. Sorry I meant SQL Server in general, not specifically the linux one. You're pretty much relegated to using ODBC and messing around with all the requisite configs there, which is fine once it's working, but it's never as nice and straightforward as other db's ime.
      - tracker1 6y ago
        > Sorry I meant SQL Server in general, not specifically the linux one. You're pretty much relegated to using ODBC and messing around with all the requisite configs there, which is fine once it's working, but it's never as nice and straightforward as other db's ime. So never dealth with Oracle outside Java? I can't speak too broadly but mssql/tedious modules for node don't use the ODBC interface and work pretty well regardless of platform with minimal issues. My biggest issues with MS SQL Server for Linux vs Windows comes down to some of the features that most dbms don't necessarily support in the first place.
  - tracker1 6y ago
    >> SQL Server on Linux > Next to Azure, this is the next biggest cause of issues at work for me, and I haven't seen any wild advantage of this over Postgres, with the disadvantage that pretty much every linux/macOS and open source tool I use is much happier to plug in to Postgres instead. It's been a pretty great thing for me, if only to be able to get a better local experience with Docker. A lot of our applications are centered around MSSQL Server (for better or worse), I'll say that despite the costs, replication in MS SQL is night and day better than Postgres. It really depends on how you use SQL Server because it doesn't support all the features of the Windows version and if software uses those features, it gets pretty ugly. That said, if you develop against the Linux version, you're unlikely to have issues deploying to the full version, or Azure SQL. Of course on other projects we're using PostgreSQL and I tend to prefer it as binary json support is huge imo. Getting other devs to understand that you don't need to break off child records into separate tables that require series of joins, that's another story.
brutal_boi 6y ago
Wind- gets shot by distant sniper
throwaway13337 6y ago
I'm in the process of switching a backend from django to dotnet core. As much as I love django's ORM, efcore is certainly feeling competitive. A big reason is that C# has always 'rocked' and now they've got a platform that can be deployed on linux that feels complete. That's super awesome of them. And their documentation for dotnet core is top-notch. That said, the last windows 10 auto-update managed to cripple the UI and (for real) network speed of the computer it ran on. That definitely didn't make me feel great about MS. It's a mixed bag. It's almost as if the company is huge and we cannot say much about it as a whole.

That's like, a full 10 years I could spend not putting up with it though. > In 2030 it will rock! Apart from _maybe_ VSCode, what has MS made that makes you go "this rocks"?

hestefisk 6y ago

WSL, .Net Core?

FridgeSeal 6y ago
I'm ambivalent about .net as a whole, but I'll pay that one.

GordonS 6y ago

Azure DevOps, dotnet core, WSL/WSL2, SQL Server on Linux, Typescript, Powershell Core (OK, so I honestly don't like Powershell, but many do), Visual Studio (I prefer Rider, but VS is great great), Windows 10 (yes, I love it), Azure DevOps (yes, I love it, unless I have to work with one of the poorly documented services), Xbox One...

FridgeSeal 6y ago
Fascinating. Fair play, I'm either ambivalent or not a fan of most of those - except maybe the Xbox, I have a PS4, but the X1 is pretty nice. > Azure DevOps...one of the poorly documented services So like, all of them? Hahahaha > SQL Server on Linux Next to Azure, this is the next biggest cause of issues at work for me, and I haven't seen any wild advantage of this over Postgres, with the disadvantage that pretty much every linux/macOS and open source tool I use is much happier to plug in to Postgres instead.
- GordonS 6y ago
  > So like, all of them? Hahahaha I really think that's unfair, untrue even. I work with a lot of services on a regular basis, and while it very frustrating to find something with missing documentation, it seems to be confined to certain services, and mostly then for new'ish features. In those cases, they are quite responsive on GitHub. > Next to Azure, this is the next biggest cause of issues at work for me, and I haven't seen any wild advantage of this over Postgres, with the disadvantage that pretty much every linux/macOS and open source tool I use is much happier to plug in to Postgres instead. I also personally prefer Postgres, and by a margin. But I have also worked with SQL Server on Linux, and haven't found any differences over SQL Server on Windows - it just works.
  - FridgeSeal 6y ago
    > I really think that's unfair, untrue even. I work with a lot of services on a regular basis, and while it very frustrating to find something with missing documentation, it seems to be confined to certain services, and mostly then for new'ish features. In those cases, they are quite responsive on GitHub. I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek here, but that is good to know they're responsive on GitHub. > But I have also worked with SQL Server on Linux, and haven't found any differences over SQL Server on Windows - it just works. Sorry I meant SQL Server in general, not specifically the linux one. You're pretty much relegated to using ODBC and messing around with all the requisite configs there, which is fine once it's working, but it's never as nice and straightforward as other db's ime.
    - tracker1 6y ago
      > Sorry I meant SQL Server in general, not specifically the linux one. You're pretty much relegated to using ODBC and messing around with all the requisite configs there, which is fine once it's working, but it's never as nice and straightforward as other db's ime. So never dealth with Oracle outside Java? I can't speak too broadly but mssql/tedious modules for node don't use the ODBC interface and work pretty well regardless of platform with minimal issues. My biggest issues with MS SQL Server for Linux vs Windows comes down to some of the features that most dbms don't necessarily support in the first place.
- tracker1 6y ago
  >> SQL Server on Linux > Next to Azure, this is the next biggest cause of issues at work for me, and I haven't seen any wild advantage of this over Postgres, with the disadvantage that pretty much every linux/macOS and open source tool I use is much happier to plug in to Postgres instead. It's been a pretty great thing for me, if only to be able to get a better local experience with Docker. A lot of our applications are centered around MSSQL Server (for better or worse), I'll say that despite the costs, replication in MS SQL is night and day better than Postgres. It really depends on how you use SQL Server because it doesn't support all the features of the Windows version and if software uses those features, it gets pretty ugly. That said, if you develop against the Linux version, you're unlikely to have issues deploying to the full version, or Azure SQL. Of course on other projects we're using PostgreSQL and I tend to prefer it as binary json support is huge imo. Getting other devs to understand that you don't need to break off child records into separate tables that require series of joins, that's another story.

brutal_boi 6y ago

Wind- gets shot by distant sniper

throwaway13337 6y ago

I'm in the process of switching a backend from django to dotnet core. As much as I love django's ORM, efcore is certainly feeling competitive. A big reason is that C# has always 'rocked' and now they've got a platform that can be deployed on linux that feels complete. That's super awesome of them. And their documentation for dotnet core is top-notch. That said, the last windows 10 auto-update managed to cripple the UI and (for real) network speed of the computer it ran on. That definitely didn't make me feel great about MS. It's a mixed bag. It's almost as if the company is huge and we cannot say much about it as a whole.