4 ms·

I don't think a minimum wage is ethically justified in a minimum standard of living society unless that value in progress through automation is justified. The

by zanny 6y ago

I don't think a minimum wage is ethically justified in a minimum standard of living society unless that value in progress through automation is justified. The arguments for minimum wage are always to insure it provides a livable wage, but economists generally rightly dislike it for limiting labor opportunities to ones above that wage threshold. In the absence of a minimum standard of living you rightly should cling to minimum wage laws like the lifeboats they are for the working poor. Once participation is voluntary forfeiting minimum wages seems like a very promising bargaining chip against capital to get a negative income tax / UBI actually put into law. I think I'd rather see UBI / NIT and have progress towards the singularity slowed for lack of a high minimum wage to pressure automation than the status quo of extreme unhappiness and poverty (and the corresponding social unrest, drug abuse, crime, mental illness, physical ailment, etc). Of course if we can have our cake and eat it too that would be great... I'm just saying to leave the minimum wage on the bargaining table, insuring survival seems like the more important goal.

michaelmrose 6y ago
We have no shortage of resteraunts even when servers, dishwashers, and cooks are all paid $15 an hour. Arguably most competent endeavors are capable of paying minimum wage. Cratering the truly incompent is a service to the market and reallocates resources to more capable players and retaining a minimum wage fosters automation and forces capital to give a larger share to labor. Either is desirable. I understand the concerns you have about automation. They are potential not fate. > I don't think a minimum wage is ethically justified in a minimum standard of living society The owner class does not make decisions based on what is ethical they act to secure their own benefits everyone might consider doing the same. > Once participation is voluntary forfeiting minimum wages seems like a very promising bargaining chip against capital to get a negative income tax / UBI actually put into law. In a democracy we ought to be able to vote our own interests as soon as enough people see the merit of the idea. Fuck negotiations. If democracy remains in truth eventually inequality will make selling this idea a trivial sale beforehand its unlikely to come to pass here in the US.

by zanny 6y ago

michaelmrose 6y ago

We have no shortage of resteraunts even when servers, dishwashers, and cooks are all paid $15 an hour. Arguably most competent endeavors are capable of paying minimum wage. Cratering the truly incompent is a service to the market and reallocates resources to more capable players and retaining a minimum wage fosters automation and forces capital to give a larger share to labor. Either is desirable. I understand the concerns you have about automation. They are potential not fate. > I don't think a minimum wage is ethically justified in a minimum standard of living society The owner class does not make decisions based on what is ethical they act to secure their own benefits everyone might consider doing the same. > Once participation is voluntary forfeiting minimum wages seems like a very promising bargaining chip against capital to get a negative income tax / UBI actually put into law. In a democracy we ought to be able to vote our own interests as soon as enough people see the merit of the idea. Fuck negotiations. If democracy remains in truth eventually inequality will make selling this idea a trivial sale beforehand its unlikely to come to pass here in the US.