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I dont see any problem with this. If you don't feel comfortable doing this then you definitely shouldn't be running random code from the internet. I would take

I dont see any problem with this. If you don't feel comfortable doing this then you definitely shouldn't be running random code from the internet. I would take it a step further and force it to be run from the command line. Also, what kind of "viable software business" has trouble paying $100 a year?

aaomidi 6y ago
Any open source developer? Do you know how much $100 is in Iran?
- aaomidi 6y ago
  Also this is a fun thing Snapp did in Iran: https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/28/21112467/iran-ridesharing-app-us-sanctions-app-store https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/28/21112467/iran-ridesharing...
- toast0 6y ago
  > Do you know how much $100 is in Iran? It doesn't really matter, because for developers in Iran, the question becomes do you know how hard it is to pay US companies from Iran?
  - DoreenMichele 6y ago
    The minute you admit you are in Iran, American companies aren't supposed to sell to you, generally speaking. So, yeah, that seems like a weird comment.
    - CodeMage 6y ago
      Fine, do you know how much $100 is in Serbia?
      - DoreenMichele 6y ago
        I spent years homeless. There are sometimes homeless developers in the US. You don't have to actually go asking snarky questions about wage rates in other countries to make the point that, for some people, that's a meaningful barrier, even for the software industry. If that's the point you want to make, there are much better ways to make it.
        CodeMage 6y ago
        I can't speak for @aaomidi who made the original comment. I can tell you that my own reply wasn't snarky. I simply pointed out that Iran isn't the only country in the world where the value of $100 is much different from its value in the United States. It seemed counterproductive to the discussion to get hung up on Iran's special status, so I mentioned a country I happen to know quite well. I don't think there's anything wrong -- or snarky -- with pointing out that there are whole countries out there where each and every developer would have as much trouble coughing up the necessary $100 as you would have had during your years of homelessness.
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
    - lucb1e 6y ago
      Let's take the spirit of the message and generalize that to countries that are not rich (aka level 4 countries: https://www.gatesnotes.com/Books/Factfulness#incomegroups https://www.gatesnotes.com/Books/Factfulness#incomegroups).
    - xfer 6y ago
      There are a lot of third world countries that america does business with so not that weird of a comment.
    - aaomidi 6y ago
      Which increases the point of being allowed to develop apps for a generic computing platform.
      - DoreenMichele 6y ago
        There was no intent at all to be disrespectful. The comment caught my eye in part because I have something of a personal interest in Iran. I used to speak regularly with an Iranian who was, among other things, a software developer. My general impression is that money was not nearly as big a problem as other things, thanks to the embargo. Your comments don't quite fit with my understanding of things, which could be just my lack of knowledge about a lot of things. If you are Iranian and, thus, your primary language is Farsi, perhaps it's due to a language barrier. I'm trying to bow out of this discussion and already deleted one of my comments. It seems like a rather lot of negativity over a minor observation on my part. So it doesn't seem like a good place to try to start a meaty discussion of open source in Iran, or I think that would be interesting to me personally, in spite of my limited knowledge of code and so forth.
        aaomidi 6y ago
        I moved to the US just a few years ago. Iran's economy has changed significantly in the past few years. University professors that used to make around ~60K USD a year just a decade ago are now making 8-12K USD a year today. Money is definitely a problem, and even if you have the money dealing with American companies completely closing off everything is a pain. Thankfully Android, being a little bit more open than Apple has allowed a ton of small software startups to become successful in Iran, while Apple has stifled them and has actively removed Iranian apps from the AppStore. This brings back me to my original point that if we keep wanting Apple to keep control of what can be published and used on the iPhone then what happens when a questionable US government decides to start banning apps that help people organize? Or apps that help people combat and fight injustices? Apple, keeping the strict control they have on the iPhone, is making the future of computing under a questionable state a dangerous thing.
        6y ago
  - pier25 6y ago
    Forget Iran. $100 is a lot of money in most parts of the world except Europe and a couple of other countries.
- dec0dedab0de 6y ago
  I just looked it up, and it seems like $100 is worth less than half a week of an average developers salary in Iran.
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    $100 can be an hour of a developer's salary here, or even less. The relative cost is quite large. (Oh, and guess who isn't making a developer's salary in Iran? Someone who is just starting out, or an open source developer, or someone who is currently unemployed…)
    - hu3 6y ago
      Exactly. Consulting jobs in London often pay $500+/day if you know what you're doing. $100 for half a week of work would be a lot. People who think otherwise live in a bubble.
      - saagarjha 6y ago
        I think you're trying to agree with me, but I don't think I've made a point for you to agree with. At least, it's probably not yours.
    - dec0dedab0de 6y ago
      But if youre just starting out or only releasing your code for free, then you're not a "viable software business", which is what the article was complaining about.
      - saagarjha 6y ago
        You know who needs to get new customers (the next sentence in the paragraph you took the quote from)? People bootstrapping a software business.
        aaomidi 6y ago
        Or people who want to publish a software for free. It's surprising how many people have forgotten that software development and starting out new projects wasn't always for an endgoal of monetizing it.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- gowld 6y ago
  You need $100 fundraised across the entire userbase. If this is a problem, projects can join together into one large app.
- FabHK 6y ago
  > Do you know how much $100 is in Iran? Much less than a Mac that you need to develop macOS software.
  - pier25 6y ago
    Per year?
  - aaomidi 6y ago
    With a laptop you're getting something worthwhile out of it, a physical object that can last you for years. With a gate like the developer account that's far less possible. It's also easy to buy a mac laptop from the blackmarket in Iran (since Apple can't legally export their laptops there), but you can't really do that with a developer account.
_qulr 6y ago
> Also, what kind of "viable software business" has trouble paying $100 a year? The issue isn't the money. The blog post was written in the context of the widely reported story of Apple threatening to terminate the developer account of Epic Games, which would prevent them from signing and notarizing their Mac software.
- dec0dedab0de 6y ago
  Ahh, that makes a bit more sense. If only had they the same policy on the iphone it wouldnt be as big of an issue.
- cytzol 6y ago
  > The blog post was written in the context of the widely reported story of Apple threatening to terminate the developer account of Epic Games, which would prevent them from signing and notarizing their Mac software. This part is key. It shows that Apple's signing and notarising requirement isn't about money, nor is it about security. Epic broke the rules of the iOS store, and now they'll be forbidden from developing on a completely different platform, just because Apple doesn't like them.
  - kinkrtyavimoodh 6y ago
    Yeah it's as simple and clear a Fuck You as can be.
  - dwaite 6y ago
    I suspect they will fix their app before this deadline. I very much doubt a judge will rule in Epic's favor for an injunction to removal when they have so obviously orchestrated this problem themselves. Apple has a single developer program for all platforms. Epic has been given a deadline to stop breaking the contract terms - submit a new version of the application which reverts the remotely activated payment logic.
    - _qulr 6y ago
      > Apple has a single developer program for all platforms. This is the fundamental problem, in my opinion. When Developer ID was introduced, it was supposed to be a mere formality, a cryptographic guarantee that an app was signed by a particular developer, to be used only for security purposes. At the time, nobody knew it would be used as leverage in an App Store dispute.
kelnos 6y ago
The issue isn't from the user side, but from the developer side. Most potential users will see the dialog, not even know they can work around it, and trash the app. Whether or not this is a good thing for most users is certainly arguable, but it still doesn't sit right that you have to pay Apple and get their permission to distribute macOS software that isn't presented to the user as likely malware.
- dwaite 6y ago
  Apple does not indicate it is 'likely' malware.

aaomidi 6y ago

Any open source developer? Do you know how much $100 is in Iran?

aaomidi 6y ago
Also this is a fun thing Snapp did in Iran: https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/28/21112467/iran-ridesharing-app-us-sanctions-app-store https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/28/21112467/iran-ridesharing...
toast0 6y ago
> Do you know how much $100 is in Iran? It doesn't really matter, because for developers in Iran, the question becomes do you know how hard it is to pay US companies from Iran?
- DoreenMichele 6y ago
  The minute you admit you are in Iran, American companies aren't supposed to sell to you, generally speaking. So, yeah, that seems like a weird comment.
  - CodeMage 6y ago
    Fine, do you know how much $100 is in Serbia?
    - DoreenMichele 6y ago
      I spent years homeless. There are sometimes homeless developers in the US. You don't have to actually go asking snarky questions about wage rates in other countries to make the point that, for some people, that's a meaningful barrier, even for the software industry. If that's the point you want to make, there are much better ways to make it.
      - CodeMage 6y ago
        I can't speak for @aaomidi who made the original comment. I can tell you that my own reply wasn't snarky. I simply pointed out that Iran isn't the only country in the world where the value of $100 is much different from its value in the United States. It seemed counterproductive to the discussion to get hung up on Iran's special status, so I mentioned a country I happen to know quite well. I don't think there's anything wrong -- or snarky -- with pointing out that there are whole countries out there where each and every developer would have as much trouble coughing up the necessary $100 as you would have had during your years of homelessness.
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
  - lucb1e 6y ago
    Let's take the spirit of the message and generalize that to countries that are not rich (aka level 4 countries: https://www.gatesnotes.com/Books/Factfulness#incomegroups https://www.gatesnotes.com/Books/Factfulness#incomegroups).
  - xfer 6y ago
    There are a lot of third world countries that america does business with so not that weird of a comment.
  - aaomidi 6y ago
    Which increases the point of being allowed to develop apps for a generic computing platform.
    - DoreenMichele 6y ago
      There was no intent at all to be disrespectful. The comment caught my eye in part because I have something of a personal interest in Iran. I used to speak regularly with an Iranian who was, among other things, a software developer. My general impression is that money was not nearly as big a problem as other things, thanks to the embargo. Your comments don't quite fit with my understanding of things, which could be just my lack of knowledge about a lot of things. If you are Iranian and, thus, your primary language is Farsi, perhaps it's due to a language barrier. I'm trying to bow out of this discussion and already deleted one of my comments. It seems like a rather lot of negativity over a minor observation on my part. So it doesn't seem like a good place to try to start a meaty discussion of open source in Iran, or I think that would be interesting to me personally, in spite of my limited knowledge of code and so forth.
      - aaomidi 6y ago
        I moved to the US just a few years ago. Iran's economy has changed significantly in the past few years. University professors that used to make around ~60K USD a year just a decade ago are now making 8-12K USD a year today. Money is definitely a problem, and even if you have the money dealing with American companies completely closing off everything is a pain. Thankfully Android, being a little bit more open than Apple has allowed a ton of small software startups to become successful in Iran, while Apple has stifled them and has actively removed Iranian apps from the AppStore. This brings back me to my original point that if we keep wanting Apple to keep control of what can be published and used on the iPhone then what happens when a questionable US government decides to start banning apps that help people organize? Or apps that help people combat and fight injustices? Apple, keeping the strict control they have on the iPhone, is making the future of computing under a questionable state a dangerous thing.
        6y ago
- pier25 6y ago
  Forget Iran. $100 is a lot of money in most parts of the world except Europe and a couple of other countries.
dec0dedab0de 6y ago
I just looked it up, and it seems like $100 is worth less than half a week of an average developers salary in Iran.
- saagarjha 6y ago
  $100 can be an hour of a developer's salary here, or even less. The relative cost is quite large. (Oh, and guess who isn't making a developer's salary in Iran? Someone who is just starting out, or an open source developer, or someone who is currently unemployed…)
  - hu3 6y ago
    Exactly. Consulting jobs in London often pay $500+/day if you know what you're doing. $100 for half a week of work would be a lot. People who think otherwise live in a bubble.
    - saagarjha 6y ago
      I think you're trying to agree with me, but I don't think I've made a point for you to agree with. At least, it's probably not yours.
  - dec0dedab0de 6y ago
    But if youre just starting out or only releasing your code for free, then you're not a "viable software business", which is what the article was complaining about.
    - saagarjha 6y ago
      You know who needs to get new customers (the next sentence in the paragraph you took the quote from)? People bootstrapping a software business.
      - aaomidi 6y ago
        Or people who want to publish a software for free. It's surprising how many people have forgotten that software development and starting out new projects wasn't always for an endgoal of monetizing it.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
gowld 6y ago
You need $100 fundraised across the entire userbase. If this is a problem, projects can join together into one large app.
FabHK 6y ago
> Do you know how much $100 is in Iran? Much less than a Mac that you need to develop macOS software.
- pier25 6y ago
  Per year?
- aaomidi 6y ago
  With a laptop you're getting something worthwhile out of it, a physical object that can last you for years. With a gate like the developer account that's far less possible. It's also easy to buy a mac laptop from the blackmarket in Iran (since Apple can't legally export their laptops there), but you can't really do that with a developer account.

_qulr 6y ago

> Also, what kind of "viable software business" has trouble paying $100 a year? The issue isn't the money. The blog post was written in the context of the widely reported story of Apple threatening to terminate the developer account of Epic Games, which would prevent them from signing and notarizing their Mac software.

dec0dedab0de 6y ago
Ahh, that makes a bit more sense. If only had they the same policy on the iphone it wouldnt be as big of an issue.
cytzol 6y ago
> The blog post was written in the context of the widely reported story of Apple threatening to terminate the developer account of Epic Games, which would prevent them from signing and notarizing their Mac software. This part is key. It shows that Apple's signing and notarising requirement isn't about money, nor is it about security. Epic broke the rules of the iOS store, and now they'll be forbidden from developing on a completely different platform, just because Apple doesn't like them.
- kinkrtyavimoodh 6y ago
  Yeah it's as simple and clear a Fuck You as can be.
- dwaite 6y ago
  I suspect they will fix their app before this deadline. I very much doubt a judge will rule in Epic's favor for an injunction to removal when they have so obviously orchestrated this problem themselves. Apple has a single developer program for all platforms. Epic has been given a deadline to stop breaking the contract terms - submit a new version of the application which reverts the remotely activated payment logic.
  - _qulr 6y ago
    > Apple has a single developer program for all platforms. This is the fundamental problem, in my opinion. When Developer ID was introduced, it was supposed to be a mere formality, a cryptographic guarantee that an app was signed by a particular developer, to be used only for security purposes. At the time, nobody knew it would be used as leverage in an App Store dispute.

kelnos 6y ago

The issue isn't from the user side, but from the developer side. Most potential users will see the dialog, not even know they can work around it, and trash the app. Whether or not this is a good thing for most users is certainly arguable, but it still doesn't sit right that you have to pay Apple and get their permission to distribute macOS software that isn't presented to the user as likely malware.

dwaite 6y ago
Apple does not indicate it is 'likely' malware.