5 ms·

I'm upset, after using the platform for a decade, that they remove negative reviews of properties. I learned this recently. That included some of my very tame

I'm upset, after using the platform for a decade, that they remove negative reviews of properties. I learned this recently. That included some of my very tame and reasonable reviews. Makes me want to short the stock when it IPOs, after its initial run-up out of vengeance.

jacksparrow11 6y ago
The market can remain irrational far longer than one's ability to remain liquid :-)
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
benatkin 6y ago
That's bad, because your life can be in the hands of your AirBnb host. https://medium.com/matter/living-and-dying-on-airbnb-6bff8d600c04 https://medium.com/matter/living-and-dying-on-airbnb-6bff8d6... https://www.huffpost.com/entry/a-death-at-an-airbnb-rental-puts-the-tech-company-in-the-hot-seat_n_5640db66e4b0b24aee4b18f7 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/a-death-at-an-airbnb-rental-p... There are going to be legitimate reasons for removing a review like bad writing, personal information, or foul language, but the net effect is making the listing appear better than it is, and that doesn't sit well with me.
- mancerayder 6y ago
  There's a subreddit where the hosts tell each other how to remove reviews (the main airbnb one). One hint is any mention of location. Other than that, anything you can prove inaccurate is grounds for Airbnb to support the host and do that for them. I used to have 5 star experiences and my last few were pretty negative, ranging from disgusting, to bad locations (not allowed to criticize location in reviews so you'll never know), to a toilet which required pushing things with brush. And more expensive than hotels.
rvz 6y ago
You know, the moment the pandemic hit, the layoffs at Uber and Lyft came and the recent disappointing earnings and the worker classification ruling, it was just screaming "short me". Lyft in particular offered some deranged predictions thinking this sort of market is sustainable and reaching "profitablity in 2021". This was them last year [0], this was them four months ago [1], and this is them now [2]. They seem to have used a malfunctioned crystal ball for that prediction. Airbnb seems like they are now escaping for an IPO, but I'd rather short the stock until it reaches below its IPO price. This virus is not going away any time soon. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21328871 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21328871 [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23020812 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23020812 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24114206 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24114206
miketery 6y ago
You shouldn't short a stock on the basis of you not liking it or based on X bad business practices. You should only short it if you believe that the market will perceive it as over valued, and the valuation will go down. That's it.
- DamnYuppie 6y ago
  If there is enough people who do or don't like something that can drive large swings in a stocks price regardless the fundamentals. A few very recent examples would be TSLA and BYND.
asdff 6y ago
Another dark pattern is hiding the price until you are nearly booking the place. Most people want a cheap stay close to where they need to be, so they look on the prices on the map, which fail to include fees which can be all over the place depending on the host.
- subsubzero 6y ago
  And the fees can be extreme. I recently tried to book a place before covid and the cleaning fees etc ended up being $400. I feel like this is a scheme landlords on airbnb are perpetrating which are similar to what used to go down on ebay years ago. For ebay they did not take a cut of the shipping cost(typically their cut was around 10% of the final sale of an item) so sellers would list items at rock bottom prices but with shipping like 5x of what it should be so they could receive a maximum amount of money. I assume airbnb does not take a cut of cleaning costs?
  - hellotomyrars 6y ago
    Some Ebay sellers still engage in this type of behavior and it's infuriating. Also sellers who use USPS but still won't ship to a PO BOX. I don't get it.
- addandsubtract 6y ago
  This was outlawed in Germany / the EU. So the price you see on the map includes cleaning and platform fees.
- oh_sigh 6y ago
  I'm not even sure if that is a dark pattern rather than just poor design. In the end, you're just going to frustrate users who think they are paying $50/night over 7 nights but when they divide their final price by 7 it is $100/night.
- seattle_spring 6y ago
  This hasn't been the case for years. If you choose the dates, the full price (including any fees) is included in the total.
fourstar 6y ago
Short the company -- not the stock. 1. Don't buy the stock. 2. Don't use the platform. 3. Tell others to do the same.
- subsubzero 6y ago
  Also, for places you do like, alot of them can be booked without airbnb and they will charge you less as they are not being gouged 30% by airbnb. I always grab business cards/contact info for places I stay at that I really like on airbnb and if I plan on going back I skirt airbnb and deal directly with the houses owner/manager. More money to the owner, less to airbnb and cheaper for you, win all the way around.
  - mancerayder 6y ago
    This is super common for Uber in places where drivers/cars are rare and hard to find, and probably recommended in poor countries where people could use the income.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
anm89 6y ago
I don't really like Airbnb as a company but they are the only one out of the marketplace based unicorns who's unit economics seem really solid to me. I personally would not be against them.
- mancerayder 6y ago
  Even in the world of COVID and restricted air travel? I mean there are lots of city people escaping .. but how likely will that continue as cabins and beachhomes become too cold.
  - fossuser 6y ago
    Arguably AirBnB becomes the only safe travel option when compared to hotels. Though neither survive a complete travel collapse.
  - eof 6y ago
    Do you expect this to last for years/decades? I think it’s fair to say that the current climate is priced in.
    - mancerayder 6y ago
      Priced into what? Stock prices? Branson had to dig into his purses to bail out Virgin recently. Layoffs are periodically occurring in the air travel world. No one knows precisely when it ends. What does "priced in" mean? Some sort of perfect market pricing thesis manifesting or am I reading into it?
      - eof 6y ago
        This thread is about Airbnb in particular. Yes I mean their stock price, from the perspective of whether or not Airbnb is a good investment.
        mancerayder 6y ago
dmode 6y ago
Can you share an example of a place where you stayed at and the negative review was removed ? Would be great to see a before and after screenshot so that people are aware that this is happening
- mancerayder 6y ago
  For privacy reasons, no. But check the AirBNB reddit group for discussions by hosts on the topic, do some searches, there are instructions and hints for how to remove negative reviews. In summary: it's trivial.
  - dmode 6y ago
    I followed your advice and searched on the Airbnb reddit for advice on review removal. And the results are the opposite of what you indicated. All posts are about how incredibly difficult it is to get reviews removed from Airbnb [1]. And it seemed like hosts are frustrated that they cannot even remove unfair reviews. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/AirBnB/search/?q=removing%20review&source=recent&restrict_sr=1 https://www.reddit.com/r/AirBnB/search/?q=removing%20review&...
    - mancerayder 6y ago
      First off it's a host subreddit. Again, look for the tips on how to remove. "ButchDeal Host5 points · 5 months ago A little relevant comment in an otherwise mostly irrelevant review will not stop support from removing it. level 5 jackasseress 0 points · 5 months ago This is simply not true level 6 ButchDeal Host2 points · 5 months ago actually it is. I have had 4 removed (2 from early last year which were the hardest to do as they were from before the new policy ;) I also head up a local host support group for AirBnB and helped others get some removed as well. It is in the discretion of the case worker but they have quite a bit of discretion on this, though just with other things occasionally you get a poor support person but I and others have gotten things removed." (https://www.reddit.com/r/AirBnB/comments/fdyeim/damning_review_from_guest_how_to_handle/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AirBnB/comments/fdyeim/damning_revi...) Here's a one month ago experience similar to mine: https://www.reddit.com/r/AirBnB/comments/hg8tmy/my_opinion_on_airbnb_a_very_bad_experience/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AirBnB/comments/hg8tmy/my_opinion_o... Here's a two year-old echo chamber of hosts: https://www.reddit.com/r/AirBnB/comments/73kdk9/airbnb_removes_negative_reviews/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AirBnB/comments/73kdk9/airbnb_remov... A recent echo-chamber dismissal of neg reviews removed: https://www.reddit.com/r/AirBnB/comments/i7jzby/i_had_a_review_removed_guest/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AirBnB/comments/i7jzby/i_had_a_revi... Someone was edited: https://www.reddit.com/r/AirBnB/comments/3a1mgu/airbnb_edited_my_review_to_remove_negative_items/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AirBnB/comments/3a1mgu/airbnb_edite... https://www.reddit.com/r/AirBnB/comments/hed9xa/can_you_request_airbnb_to_remove_reviews_if_they/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AirBnB/comments/hed9xa/can_you_requ... Conversation about 'new review policy'

jacksparrow11 6y ago

The market can remain irrational far longer than one's ability to remain liquid :-)

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

benatkin 6y ago

That's bad, because your life can be in the hands of your AirBnb host. https://medium.com/matter/living-and-dying-on-airbnb-6bff8d600c04 https://medium.com/matter/living-and-dying-on-airbnb-6bff8d6... https://www.huffpost.com/entry/a-death-at-an-airbnb-rental-puts-the-tech-company-in-the-hot-seat_n_5640db66e4b0b24aee4b18f7 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/a-death-at-an-airbnb-rental-p... There are going to be legitimate reasons for removing a review like bad writing, personal information, or foul language, but the net effect is making the listing appear better than it is, and that doesn't sit well with me.

mancerayder 6y ago
There's a subreddit where the hosts tell each other how to remove reviews (the main airbnb one). One hint is any mention of location. Other than that, anything you can prove inaccurate is grounds for Airbnb to support the host and do that for them. I used to have 5 star experiences and my last few were pretty negative, ranging from disgusting, to bad locations (not allowed to criticize location in reviews so you'll never know), to a toilet which required pushing things with brush. And more expensive than hotels.

rvz 6y ago

You know, the moment the pandemic hit, the layoffs at Uber and Lyft came and the recent disappointing earnings and the worker classification ruling, it was just screaming "short me". Lyft in particular offered some deranged predictions thinking this sort of market is sustainable and reaching "profitablity in 2021". This was them last year [0], this was them four months ago [1], and this is them now [2]. They seem to have used a malfunctioned crystal ball for that prediction. Airbnb seems like they are now escaping for an IPO, but I'd rather short the stock until it reaches below its IPO price. This virus is not going away any time soon. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21328871 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21328871 [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23020812 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23020812 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24114206 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24114206

miketery 6y ago

You shouldn't short a stock on the basis of you not liking it or based on X bad business practices. You should only short it if you believe that the market will perceive it as over valued, and the valuation will go down. That's it.

DamnYuppie 6y ago
If there is enough people who do or don't like something that can drive large swings in a stocks price regardless the fundamentals. A few very recent examples would be TSLA and BYND.

asdff 6y ago

Another dark pattern is hiding the price until you are nearly booking the place. Most people want a cheap stay close to where they need to be, so they look on the prices on the map, which fail to include fees which can be all over the place depending on the host.

subsubzero 6y ago
And the fees can be extreme. I recently tried to book a place before covid and the cleaning fees etc ended up being $400. I feel like this is a scheme landlords on airbnb are perpetrating which are similar to what used to go down on ebay years ago. For ebay they did not take a cut of the shipping cost(typically their cut was around 10% of the final sale of an item) so sellers would list items at rock bottom prices but with shipping like 5x of what it should be so they could receive a maximum amount of money. I assume airbnb does not take a cut of cleaning costs?
- hellotomyrars 6y ago
  Some Ebay sellers still engage in this type of behavior and it's infuriating. Also sellers who use USPS but still won't ship to a PO BOX. I don't get it.
addandsubtract 6y ago
This was outlawed in Germany / the EU. So the price you see on the map includes cleaning and platform fees.
oh_sigh 6y ago
I'm not even sure if that is a dark pattern rather than just poor design. In the end, you're just going to frustrate users who think they are paying $50/night over 7 nights but when they divide their final price by 7 it is $100/night.
seattle_spring 6y ago
This hasn't been the case for years. If you choose the dates, the full price (including any fees) is included in the total.

fourstar 6y ago

Short the company -- not the stock. 1. Don't buy the stock. 2. Don't use the platform. 3. Tell others to do the same.

subsubzero 6y ago
Also, for places you do like, alot of them can be booked without airbnb and they will charge you less as they are not being gouged 30% by airbnb. I always grab business cards/contact info for places I stay at that I really like on airbnb and if I plan on going back I skirt airbnb and deal directly with the houses owner/manager. More money to the owner, less to airbnb and cheaper for you, win all the way around.
- mancerayder 6y ago
  This is super common for Uber in places where drivers/cars are rare and hard to find, and probably recommended in poor countries where people could use the income.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

anm89 6y ago

I don't really like Airbnb as a company but they are the only one out of the marketplace based unicorns who's unit economics seem really solid to me. I personally would not be against them.

mancerayder 6y ago
Even in the world of COVID and restricted air travel? I mean there are lots of city people escaping .. but how likely will that continue as cabins and beachhomes become too cold.
- fossuser 6y ago
  Arguably AirBnB becomes the only safe travel option when compared to hotels. Though neither survive a complete travel collapse.
- eof 6y ago
  Do you expect this to last for years/decades? I think it’s fair to say that the current climate is priced in.
  - mancerayder 6y ago
    Priced into what? Stock prices? Branson had to dig into his purses to bail out Virgin recently. Layoffs are periodically occurring in the air travel world. No one knows precisely when it ends. What does "priced in" mean? Some sort of perfect market pricing thesis manifesting or am I reading into it?
    - eof 6y ago
      This thread is about Airbnb in particular. Yes I mean their stock price, from the perspective of whether or not Airbnb is a good investment.
      - mancerayder 6y ago

dmode 6y ago

Can you share an example of a place where you stayed at and the negative review was removed ? Would be great to see a before and after screenshot so that people are aware that this is happening

mancerayder 6y ago
For privacy reasons, no. But check the AirBNB reddit group for discussions by hosts on the topic, do some searches, there are instructions and hints for how to remove negative reviews. In summary: it's trivial.
- dmode 6y ago
  I followed your advice and searched on the Airbnb reddit for advice on review removal. And the results are the opposite of what you indicated. All posts are about how incredibly difficult it is to get reviews removed from Airbnb [1]. And it seemed like hosts are frustrated that they cannot even remove unfair reviews. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/AirBnB/search/?q=removing%20review&source=recent&restrict_sr=1 https://www.reddit.com/r/AirBnB/search/?q=removing%20review&...
  - mancerayder 6y ago
    First off it's a host subreddit. Again, look for the tips on how to remove. "ButchDeal Host5 points · 5 months ago A little relevant comment in an otherwise mostly irrelevant review will not stop support from removing it. level 5 jackasseress 0 points · 5 months ago This is simply not true level 6 ButchDeal Host2 points · 5 months ago actually it is. I have had 4 removed (2 from early last year which were the hardest to do as they were from before the new policy ;) I also head up a local host support group for AirBnB and helped others get some removed as well. It is in the discretion of the case worker but they have quite a bit of discretion on this, though just with other things occasionally you get a poor support person but I and others have gotten things removed." (https://www.reddit.com/r/AirBnB/comments/fdyeim/damning_review_from_guest_how_to_handle/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AirBnB/comments/fdyeim/damning_revi...) Here's a one month ago experience similar to mine: https://www.reddit.com/r/AirBnB/comments/hg8tmy/my_opinion_on_airbnb_a_very_bad_experience/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AirBnB/comments/hg8tmy/my_opinion_o... Here's a two year-old echo chamber of hosts: https://www.reddit.com/r/AirBnB/comments/73kdk9/airbnb_removes_negative_reviews/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AirBnB/comments/73kdk9/airbnb_remov... A recent echo-chamber dismissal of neg reviews removed: https://www.reddit.com/r/AirBnB/comments/i7jzby/i_had_a_review_removed_guest/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AirBnB/comments/i7jzby/i_had_a_revi... Someone was edited: https://www.reddit.com/r/AirBnB/comments/3a1mgu/airbnb_edited_my_review_to_remove_negative_items/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AirBnB/comments/3a1mgu/airbnb_edite... https://www.reddit.com/r/AirBnB/comments/hed9xa/can_you_request_airbnb_to_remove_reviews_if_they/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AirBnB/comments/hed9xa/can_you_requ... Conversation about 'new review policy'