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The richest person in Australia seriously floated an idea to import foreign workers and pay them $2 a day to work in her mines I've always looked at minimum wa

The richest person in Australia seriously floated an idea to import foreign workers and pay them $2 a day to work in her mines I've always looked at minimum wage as an employer saying "I'd pay you less if I legally could". In workplace negotiations all of the power is held by the employer, unless you have some form of collective bargaining, and having a Government mandated minimum prevents companies from totally exploiting low paid workers.

qeternity 6y ago
These policies are always double edged swords. The other way to frame minimum wage is that it makes it illegal to work unless you can produce $X value per hour.
- csours 6y ago
  Ehhh? What are you talking about? It's not illegal to do things that don't make money. That's called a cost center. I don't make money for my company, I reduce the risk of losing money, and provide tools for people who do make money.
  - qeternity 6y ago
    I didn’t say making money, I said providing value. You’re creating some value for your company that exceeds what they pay you, otherwise you wouldn’t have a job. Let’s say I’m a widget maker. I can make 10 widgets per hour for my company, and they in then earn $1 profit per widget. This company is not going to pay me $15/hr if I’m only able to generate $10/hr in value for the business. But if minimum wage is $15 then it makes it illegal for me to work for them.
    - csours 6y ago
      That still doesn't make it illegal. It only makes it non-viable from a unit-economics point of view. Now if you want to talk about how larger companies have better unit-economics, and small companies can suffer with high minimum wage, then we can certainly have that conversation.
      - incadenza 6y ago
        This entire discussion is about laws regarding minimum wage, the act of literally making it illegal to hire for less than a certain wage. I’m not sure I see the confusion
        csours 6y ago
        > "The other way to frame minimum wage is that it makes it illegal to work unless you can produce $X value per hour." Wages are a cost to a company. There are other costs to a company. Companies also return a profit to the owners. If a company's costs are too high, they my not return a profit; they may not be able to pay their creditors. My dad ran his own very small business. I am familiar with a business not making a profit for a period of time. I am familiar with workers who are not profitable to employ. It is a reduction to absurdity to state that minimum wage "makes it illegal to work unless you can produce $X value per hour." There are interesting, non-absurd discussions about the effects of minimum wage, but this is not one of them.
        akvadrako 6y ago
        So you're saying your Dad would be better off if he kept the $X then paying someone. That's what it means to produce value. The number of employers seeking such an arrangement is so small it's irrelevant. In practice, not being able to pay people less that $15/hour means you won't hire people who bring less that $15/hour of value.
    - ApolloFortyNine 6y ago
      This is why I always found it odd that Trump would get attacked for setting tariffs. Minimum wage essentially requires tariffs, as long as the world doesn't have equal income. If people are only willing to pay a $1 for a shirt, but to make it in the US will require to charge $2, but the same shirt in China will only cost $0.50, what will happen? Now instead of having a factory with low wage employees, you have no factory, no employees, no supply chain.

qeternity 6y ago

These policies are always double edged swords. The other way to frame minimum wage is that it makes it illegal to work unless you can produce $X value per hour.

csours 6y ago
Ehhh? What are you talking about? It's not illegal to do things that don't make money. That's called a cost center. I don't make money for my company, I reduce the risk of losing money, and provide tools for people who do make money.
- qeternity 6y ago
  I didn’t say making money, I said providing value. You’re creating some value for your company that exceeds what they pay you, otherwise you wouldn’t have a job. Let’s say I’m a widget maker. I can make 10 widgets per hour for my company, and they in then earn $1 profit per widget. This company is not going to pay me $15/hr if I’m only able to generate $10/hr in value for the business. But if minimum wage is $15 then it makes it illegal for me to work for them.
  - csours 6y ago
    That still doesn't make it illegal. It only makes it non-viable from a unit-economics point of view. Now if you want to talk about how larger companies have better unit-economics, and small companies can suffer with high minimum wage, then we can certainly have that conversation.
    - incadenza 6y ago
      This entire discussion is about laws regarding minimum wage, the act of literally making it illegal to hire for less than a certain wage. I’m not sure I see the confusion
      - csours 6y ago
        > "The other way to frame minimum wage is that it makes it illegal to work unless you can produce $X value per hour." Wages are a cost to a company. There are other costs to a company. Companies also return a profit to the owners. If a company's costs are too high, they my not return a profit; they may not be able to pay their creditors. My dad ran his own very small business. I am familiar with a business not making a profit for a period of time. I am familiar with workers who are not profitable to employ. It is a reduction to absurdity to state that minimum wage "makes it illegal to work unless you can produce $X value per hour." There are interesting, non-absurd discussions about the effects of minimum wage, but this is not one of them.
        akvadrako 6y ago
        So you're saying your Dad would be better off if he kept the $X then paying someone. That's what it means to produce value. The number of employers seeking such an arrangement is so small it's irrelevant. In practice, not being able to pay people less that $15/hour means you won't hire people who bring less that $15/hour of value.
  - ApolloFortyNine 6y ago
    This is why I always found it odd that Trump would get attacked for setting tariffs. Minimum wage essentially requires tariffs, as long as the world doesn't have equal income. If people are only willing to pay a $1 for a shirt, but to make it in the US will require to charge $2, but the same shirt in China will only cost $0.50, what will happen? Now instead of having a factory with low wage employees, you have no factory, no employees, no supply chain.