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I think you're overselling your point a bit. $15/hr would be very rough in NYC or SF, but it's actually a pretty decent wage for a single person most places in

I think you're overselling your point a bit. $15/hr would be very rough in NYC or SF, but it's actually a pretty decent wage for a single person most places in the US. for comparison, I make quite a bit more than $15/hr, but $2100/month is pretty close to what it costs me to live a nice life in one of the most desirable neighborhoods in my city. I spend closer to $2500 in a typical month, but $200 of that is because I chose a nice apartment with a good view, and I could probably shave off another $200-300 by not shopping at whole foods and downgrading the alcohol I buy. a year ago, I was living in a detached home (with a driveway!) in the county with three other people and my monthly spending was well under $2000. so imo, $15/hr is more than enough as an absolute floor for wages in most locales. probably not enough to support an entire household with n children on a single income, but I don't think that's a reasonable expectation for a minimum wage.

nobody9999 6y ago
>for comparison, I make quite a bit more than $15/hr, but $2100/month is pretty close to what it costs me to live a nice life in one of the most desirable neighborhoods in my city. What's your monthly healthcare premium? What's that, your employer provides that for you? Mine is almost $750/month. That's just for me. What's more, as I pointed out, many folks earning minimum wage don't get 40 hours/week. As such, their income is less than the numbers I stated. To go even farther, it's not so much about $15/hour or any other arbitrary figure. It's about whether or not someone can support themselves (and their dependents -- I didn't address children or parents or other non-working folks in a household, let alone the costs of child care if all adults need to work to pay the bills). If the current minimum wage doesn't allow for that, then the government (that means you and me) has to subsidize those folks. in the end, it comes down to how we choose to deal with this situation. Do we require employers to provide a (theoretical, remember many don't get 40 hours a week) living wage, or do we as a society pay to subsidize those employers who don't pay enough to allow people to support themselves? But the issue goes beyond just the dollars and cents. The hoops that many government programs force those who need help to jump through is often demeaning and tends to dehumanize people. What's more, those programs have overhead too. The costs of administering these programs need to be considered part of the subsidy to employers.
- leetcrew 6y ago
  > What's your monthly healthcare premium? What's that, your employer provides that for you? Mine is almost $750/month. That's just for me. yes, my employer pays the premiums for my HDHP. the coverage is comparable to something at the boundary of a typical silver/gold ACA plan. these cost $450-480/month for an individual, but someone making $30k would likely qualify for a federal credit of $100+/month (not to mention that their tax burden would be significantly lower than your quick estimate). > What's more, as I pointed out, many folks earning minimum wage don't get 40 hours/week. As such, their income is less than the numbers I stated. "many" being about 6% of workers making the minimum wage, according to BLS in 2017.[0] > in the end, it comes down to how we choose to deal with this situation. Do we require employers to provide a (theoretical, remember many don't get 40 hours a week) living wage, or do we as a society pay to subsidize those employers who don't pay enough to allow people to support themselves? > But the issue goes beyond just the dollars and cents. The hoops that many government programs force those who need help to jump through is often demeaning and tends to dehumanize people. What's more, those programs have overhead too. The costs of administering these programs need to be considered part of the subsidy to employers. as a taxpayer, I'm not happy about paying for it, but I tend to think this is society's problem more than any particular business's. inevitably, there will be people who do not produce enough value to sustain themselves. in my ideal world, we would do away with minimum wage entirely, give people UBI sufficient to at least subsist (perhaps coupled with a public option for affordable heathcare), and let businesses employ anyone who wants to work for a market wage. [0]https://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/minimum-wage/2017/home.htm https://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/minimum-wage/2017/home.htm

nobody9999 6y ago

>for comparison, I make quite a bit more than $15/hr, but $2100/month is pretty close to what it costs me to live a nice life in one of the most desirable neighborhoods in my city. What's your monthly healthcare premium? What's that, your employer provides that for you? Mine is almost $750/month. That's just for me. What's more, as I pointed out, many folks earning minimum wage don't get 40 hours/week. As such, their income is less than the numbers I stated. To go even farther, it's not so much about $15/hour or any other arbitrary figure. It's about whether or not someone can support themselves (and their dependents -- I didn't address children or parents or other non-working folks in a household, let alone the costs of child care if all adults need to work to pay the bills). If the current minimum wage doesn't allow for that, then the government (that means you and me) has to subsidize those folks. in the end, it comes down to how we choose to deal with this situation. Do we require employers to provide a (theoretical, remember many don't get 40 hours a week) living wage, or do we as a society pay to subsidize those employers who don't pay enough to allow people to support themselves? But the issue goes beyond just the dollars and cents. The hoops that many government programs force those who need help to jump through is often demeaning and tends to dehumanize people. What's more, those programs have overhead too. The costs of administering these programs need to be considered part of the subsidy to employers.

leetcrew 6y ago
> What's your monthly healthcare premium? What's that, your employer provides that for you? Mine is almost $750/month. That's just for me. yes, my employer pays the premiums for my HDHP. the coverage is comparable to something at the boundary of a typical silver/gold ACA plan. these cost $450-480/month for an individual, but someone making $30k would likely qualify for a federal credit of $100+/month (not to mention that their tax burden would be significantly lower than your quick estimate). > What's more, as I pointed out, many folks earning minimum wage don't get 40 hours/week. As such, their income is less than the numbers I stated. "many" being about 6% of workers making the minimum wage, according to BLS in 2017.[0] > in the end, it comes down to how we choose to deal with this situation. Do we require employers to provide a (theoretical, remember many don't get 40 hours a week) living wage, or do we as a society pay to subsidize those employers who don't pay enough to allow people to support themselves? > But the issue goes beyond just the dollars and cents. The hoops that many government programs force those who need help to jump through is often demeaning and tends to dehumanize people. What's more, those programs have overhead too. The costs of administering these programs need to be considered part of the subsidy to employers. as a taxpayer, I'm not happy about paying for it, but I tend to think this is society's problem more than any particular business's. inevitably, there will be people who do not produce enough value to sustain themselves. in my ideal world, we would do away with minimum wage entirely, give people UBI sufficient to at least subsist (perhaps coupled with a public option for affordable heathcare), and let businesses employ anyone who wants to work for a market wage. [0]https://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/minimum-wage/2017/home.htm https://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/minimum-wage/2017/home.htm