4 ms·

Your chain of causality is actually completely wrong. At 15 dollars an hour only a few companies can hire unskilled workers. At 1 dollar an hour many people can

Your chain of causality is actually completely wrong. At 15 dollars an hour only a few companies can hire unskilled workers. At 1 dollar an hour many people can pay workers that amount, so there is more competition out there for wages. The idea that there is a monopolistic employer in the US labor market is laughable. Even for monopolistic industries like telecom there are multiple options. Minimum wage jobs should not be expected to be a long term viable career choice. Minimum wage jobs are a way for people to get their first experience, and then move one once they have gained valuable skills. People like to twist reality by imposing arbitrary constraints e.g. workers need to be able to get paid 15 dollars an hour without needing to relocate or learn new skills. The world isn't a charity, and anyone disputing that price floors don't result in shortages is frankly uneducated.

gjulianm 6y ago
> Your chain of causality is actually completely wrong. At 15 dollars an hour only a few companies can hire unskilled workers. At 1 dollar an hour many people can pay workers that amount, so there is more competition out there for wages. That theory is good if there's a surplus of job offers, something that doesn't happen outside of very specific sectors. Moreover, your argument assumes that changing jobs is easy and risk-free, when in reality it's not, specially for unskilled workers. > Minimum wage jobs should not be expected to be a long term viable career choice. Why not? Of course it's not the optimal career choice, but why wouldn't one be able to live off a full-time job? > Minimum wage jobs are a way for people to get their first experience, and then move one once they have gained valuable skills. Yeah, the "serving fast food" skill that is so demanded in the current job market. > workers need to be able to get paid 15 dollars an hour without needing to relocate or learn new skills If you don't get paid a livable wage, you can't save for moving and/or changing jobs, and it will be far harder to pay and/or have time for further education. Non-livable wages just lock people into poverty. When the alternative is losing your house, or your healthcare, or starving, people will be forced to make non-optimal long-term decisions because it's their only option.
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > Non-livable wages just lock people into poverty. No, non-livable income does that. Relying on wages to solve that relegates people to a permanent underclass if they ever experience more than brief unemployment.
Broken_Hippo 6y ago
IT doesn't matter if minimum wage shouldn't be expected to be long-term. The reality is that many folks basically work minimum wage or slightly above for large chunks of their life. And some folks are happy in these jobs. Some of these minimum wage jobs even require degrees. Preschool teachers, for example, often pay minimum wage or just above it - but this somehow shouldn't be a career choice. Many other jobs pay just a little above this - which, realistically, is what you'd get working late at a burger place. They get paid more than preschool teachers many times. There is a limit to the ability to relocate with these jobs as it costs money: Same for learning new skills. Denying folks a living wage when you know that low-paying jobs is reality for a large band of people (regardless of what you think it should be) is just cruel. The world "isn't a charity" because folks look down on folks.
jayd16 6y ago
A livable minimum wage is the only way someone can move on. If you're working in an unskilled job, living paycheck to paycheck, how are you going to improve that situation?
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > If you're working in an unskilled job, living paycheck to paycheck, how are you going to improve that situation? One of the most common ways people move on to higher-paying jobs in the workforce is by skills (not necessarily in “skilled labor” sense, but even just basic work habits) earned and/or demonstrated through work in lower-paying (even unpaid, though less that since the crackdown on unpaid internships) jobs. Minimum wage jobs, even when minimum wage does not meet any criteria for “living wage”, are absolutely part of that.
  - asdff 6y ago
    It's a lot easier said than done. There are a finite amount of management positions.
    - dragonwriter 6y ago
      Not all positions which aren't poorly paid are supervisory/management positions. Of course, restricting employability at the bottom end proportionately reduces the number of supervisory/management positions needed.

gjulianm 6y ago

> Your chain of causality is actually completely wrong. At 15 dollars an hour only a few companies can hire unskilled workers. At 1 dollar an hour many people can pay workers that amount, so there is more competition out there for wages. That theory is good if there's a surplus of job offers, something that doesn't happen outside of very specific sectors. Moreover, your argument assumes that changing jobs is easy and risk-free, when in reality it's not, specially for unskilled workers. > Minimum wage jobs should not be expected to be a long term viable career choice. Why not? Of course it's not the optimal career choice, but why wouldn't one be able to live off a full-time job? > Minimum wage jobs are a way for people to get their first experience, and then move one once they have gained valuable skills. Yeah, the "serving fast food" skill that is so demanded in the current job market. > workers need to be able to get paid 15 dollars an hour without needing to relocate or learn new skills If you don't get paid a livable wage, you can't save for moving and/or changing jobs, and it will be far harder to pay and/or have time for further education. Non-livable wages just lock people into poverty. When the alternative is losing your house, or your healthcare, or starving, people will be forced to make non-optimal long-term decisions because it's their only option.

dragonwriter 6y ago
> Non-livable wages just lock people into poverty. No, non-livable income does that. Relying on wages to solve that relegates people to a permanent underclass if they ever experience more than brief unemployment.

Broken_Hippo 6y ago

IT doesn't matter if minimum wage shouldn't be expected to be long-term. The reality is that many folks basically work minimum wage or slightly above for large chunks of their life. And some folks are happy in these jobs. Some of these minimum wage jobs even require degrees. Preschool teachers, for example, often pay minimum wage or just above it - but this somehow shouldn't be a career choice. Many other jobs pay just a little above this - which, realistically, is what you'd get working late at a burger place. They get paid more than preschool teachers many times. There is a limit to the ability to relocate with these jobs as it costs money: Same for learning new skills. Denying folks a living wage when you know that low-paying jobs is reality for a large band of people (regardless of what you think it should be) is just cruel. The world "isn't a charity" because folks look down on folks.

jayd16 6y ago

A livable minimum wage is the only way someone can move on. If you're working in an unskilled job, living paycheck to paycheck, how are you going to improve that situation?

dragonwriter 6y ago
> If you're working in an unskilled job, living paycheck to paycheck, how are you going to improve that situation? One of the most common ways people move on to higher-paying jobs in the workforce is by skills (not necessarily in “skilled labor” sense, but even just basic work habits) earned and/or demonstrated through work in lower-paying (even unpaid, though less that since the crackdown on unpaid internships) jobs. Minimum wage jobs, even when minimum wage does not meet any criteria for “living wage”, are absolutely part of that.
- asdff 6y ago
  It's a lot easier said than done. There are a finite amount of management positions.
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    Not all positions which aren't poorly paid are supervisory/management positions. Of course, restricting employability at the bottom end proportionately reduces the number of supervisory/management positions needed.