5 ms·

> The direct effect of the minimum wage is to make certain low-productivity jobs illegal. Consider that for a moment: a person with limited skills and/or needs

by mdoms 6y ago

> The direct effect of the minimum wage is to make certain low-productivity jobs illegal. Consider that for a moment: a person with limited skills and/or needs is simply prohibited from doing low-productivity work regardless of desire. Has this ever been shown to be the case? Use real data or case studies.

_ah 6y ago
Walmart eliminated all greeters last year.
- mdoms 6y ago
  Was there a corresponding increase in minimum wage?
  - fragsworth 6y ago
    No, but I don't think that makes the point any less relevant.
    - mdoms 6y ago
      Well either the greeters became more expensive or their utility dropped, if we're taking a simplistic market-based approach. So which is it?
- pwinnski 6y ago
  And yet this year I see people standing outside the front door with a box of masks, ensuring everyone is masked before entering, and greeting people at the same time.
  - fragsworth 6y ago
    The fact that they were hired back during a pandemic isn't a good counter-argument, greeters obviously add very small value to the company under normal circumstances.
flyingfences 6y ago
McDonalds locations now have replaced most of their cashiers with touchscreens.
- kennywinker 6y ago
  minimum wage in the usa has been largely static or declining since 1968, if you control for inflation (1). Given that, it seems like the thing driving the mcdonalds cashier job losses are not minimum wage laws, but rather technology and probably the economic pressure to maximize shareholder value caused by the stock market. (1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage_in_the_United_Sta...)
- mdoms 6y ago
  Did this happen in response to minimum wage?
  - fragsworth 6y ago
    Yes, because if there were no minimum wage, they would simply pay employees less and forget about the touchscreens.
    - mdoms 6y ago
      So these touch screens are not being introduced in countries with low or no minimum wage?
    - smileysteve 6y ago
      This is incorrect; There were multiple steps of acceptance of the touchscreens including order accuracy, expediency, and customer interaction. If McDonalds could pay less, not train employees, have them touch buttons accurately, and customers enjoyed interacting with those people; then, and only then is what you have said close to truthful. What you have proposed is that the internet wouldn't send electronic bits if we just paid mail carriers more.
abstractbarista 6y ago
Back-breaking farm work is done largely by humans who are present in the country illegally.
- mdoms 6y ago
  So the fields would be left fallow if governments enforced their laws properly?
  - dx87 6y ago
    In some cases, yes. California farms are having problems finding people to work in fields since border control got tighter, and American's don't want to do the work, even for $15+ an hour. The farm owners said they're switching crops over to ones that are easier to harvest with machines. Similar things have happened in the South-East USA, where crops have been left to rot on the field because the government started cracking down on illegal immigrant labor, and no citizens want to fill the positions. https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-farms-immigration/ https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-farms-immigration/ https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/oct/14/alabama-immigration-law-workers https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/oct/14/alabama-immigr...
    - nerdponx 6y ago
      This seems like a short term phenomenon as the market adjusts. Over time, consumer prices of labor-intensive produce will rise relative to non-labor-intensive produce. If you had to find a humanitarian angle here, you should ask what the people who were previously working in the fields should do for work instead. Is unemployment the only alternative? Or can the large numbers of people who are currently migrant workers be incorporated into the economy in a different but productive way? I don't have good answers to those questions.
  - nearbuy 6y ago
    Every year struggling farms go out of business[1]. If expenses are a bit higher, a bit more farms will go under. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2020/02/10/us-farm-bankruptcies-reach-eight-year-high-infographic/#752fd5cb7de0 https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2020/02/10/us-far...

by mdoms 6y ago

_ah 6y ago

Walmart eliminated all greeters last year.

mdoms 6y ago
Was there a corresponding increase in minimum wage?
- fragsworth 6y ago
  No, but I don't think that makes the point any less relevant.
  - mdoms 6y ago
    Well either the greeters became more expensive or their utility dropped, if we're taking a simplistic market-based approach. So which is it?
pwinnski 6y ago
And yet this year I see people standing outside the front door with a box of masks, ensuring everyone is masked before entering, and greeting people at the same time.
- fragsworth 6y ago
  The fact that they were hired back during a pandemic isn't a good counter-argument, greeters obviously add very small value to the company under normal circumstances.

flyingfences 6y ago

McDonalds locations now have replaced most of their cashiers with touchscreens.

kennywinker 6y ago
minimum wage in the usa has been largely static or declining since 1968, if you control for inflation (1). Given that, it seems like the thing driving the mcdonalds cashier job losses are not minimum wage laws, but rather technology and probably the economic pressure to maximize shareholder value caused by the stock market. (1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage_in_the_United_Sta...)
mdoms 6y ago
Did this happen in response to minimum wage?
- fragsworth 6y ago
  Yes, because if there were no minimum wage, they would simply pay employees less and forget about the touchscreens.
  - mdoms 6y ago
    So these touch screens are not being introduced in countries with low or no minimum wage?
  - smileysteve 6y ago
    This is incorrect; There were multiple steps of acceptance of the touchscreens including order accuracy, expediency, and customer interaction. If McDonalds could pay less, not train employees, have them touch buttons accurately, and customers enjoyed interacting with those people; then, and only then is what you have said close to truthful. What you have proposed is that the internet wouldn't send electronic bits if we just paid mail carriers more.

abstractbarista 6y ago

Back-breaking farm work is done largely by humans who are present in the country illegally.

mdoms 6y ago
So the fields would be left fallow if governments enforced their laws properly?
- dx87 6y ago
  In some cases, yes. California farms are having problems finding people to work in fields since border control got tighter, and American's don't want to do the work, even for $15+ an hour. The farm owners said they're switching crops over to ones that are easier to harvest with machines. Similar things have happened in the South-East USA, where crops have been left to rot on the field because the government started cracking down on illegal immigrant labor, and no citizens want to fill the positions. https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-farms-immigration/ https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-farms-immigration/ https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/oct/14/alabama-immigration-law-workers https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/oct/14/alabama-immigr...
  - nerdponx 6y ago
    This seems like a short term phenomenon as the market adjusts. Over time, consumer prices of labor-intensive produce will rise relative to non-labor-intensive produce. If you had to find a humanitarian angle here, you should ask what the people who were previously working in the fields should do for work instead. Is unemployment the only alternative? Or can the large numbers of people who are currently migrant workers be incorporated into the economy in a different but productive way? I don't have good answers to those questions.
- nearbuy 6y ago
  Every year struggling farms go out of business[1]. If expenses are a bit higher, a bit more farms will go under. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2020/02/10/us-farm-bankruptcies-reach-eight-year-high-infographic/#752fd5cb7de0 https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2020/02/10/us-far...