5 ms·

You also have to factor in the weight reduction as petroleum fuel is consumed vs the fixed weight of a battery.

Tuna-Fish 6y ago
True, but the effect of this is less than it sounds like, as while the fuel is consumed, in an ICE car the engine is the heavy part and that isn't consumed.
- klyrs 6y ago
  Don't discount this so easily. You can't land a jumbo jet immediately after takeoff because its maximum allowed landing weight is much less than its maximum allowed takeoff weight. So you'll need a stronger fuselage and landing gear for electric plans, which means even more weight
tenuousemphasis 6y ago
Yes, that's true. And the cost of electricity vs. fuel. Safety is another factor. The point is there's a lot more to it than Wh/kg of the energy source.
outworlder 6y ago
This is a huge deal for aircraft. Not much for cars, as EVs are not carrying a lot of extra baggage that ICE cars require. When was the last time you saw an ICE with both a trunk and a frunk? :)
- throwaway189262 6y ago
  Modern gasoline engines are not as heavy as you may think. I once transported 2 liter car engine in the back seat of my civic. Only ~150 lb and quite manageable. Even monster SUV motors are only ~350 lbs. That doesn't include cooling, oil, accessories, or transmission but EV's have those too.
- ScottBurson 6y ago
  > When was the last time you saw an ICE with both a trunk and a frunk? Seconds ago -- there's one in my carport :-) (A 1993 Toyota MR2; it's mid-engine. The frunk is small, and completely filled by the spare tire and aftermarket stereo amp.)
gibolt 6y ago
I'd love to see a future where part of a plane's battery pack is a detachable drone that could fly back right after takeoff (most taxing on energy use) and thus decrease the weight of the plane. You could also have battery swaps during flight as they pass over drone battery depots. Sounds crazy. Might not be worth the gains for the complexity, but could be worth it across a whole fleet. Microwave laser groundstations (or solar satellites) could come first, removing much of the battery requirement.
- tengbretson 6y ago
  Hah, now you've got me imagining a gentle rain of 18650 batteries following a plane as it travels across the sky.
  - gibolt 6y ago
    Yes, gentle :D
- mikeyouse 6y ago
  Seems like you'd be better off with a ground-based catapult system to get the plane up to speed and in the air where the on-board motors could take over.
  - gibolt 6y ago
    If these are passenger aircraft, that probably wouldn't fly
    - microcolonel 6y ago
      > If these are passenger aircraft, that probably wouldn't fly Well, it doesn't need to have the same rate of acceleration as a carrier's, but honestly it just doesn't make sense in general.
      - mikeyouse 6y ago
oh_sigh 6y ago
My SUV is 4500 lbs and has a 17 gallon tank. Gasoline weighs ~6lbs/gallon, so it only factors for about 2% of total mass between a full and empty tank. Seems safe to mostly ignore it.

True, but the effect of this is less than it sounds like, as while the fuel is consumed, in an ICE car the engine is the heavy part and that isn't consumed.

klyrs 6y ago
Don't discount this so easily. You can't land a jumbo jet immediately after takeoff because its maximum allowed landing weight is much less than its maximum allowed takeoff weight. So you'll need a stronger fuselage and landing gear for electric plans, which means even more weight

tenuousemphasis 6y ago

Yes, that's true. And the cost of electricity vs. fuel. Safety is another factor. The point is there's a lot more to it than Wh/kg of the energy source.

outworlder 6y ago

This is a huge deal for aircraft. Not much for cars, as EVs are not carrying a lot of extra baggage that ICE cars require. When was the last time you saw an ICE with both a trunk and a frunk? :)

throwaway189262 6y ago
Modern gasoline engines are not as heavy as you may think. I once transported 2 liter car engine in the back seat of my civic. Only ~150 lb and quite manageable. Even monster SUV motors are only ~350 lbs. That doesn't include cooling, oil, accessories, or transmission but EV's have those too.
ScottBurson 6y ago
> When was the last time you saw an ICE with both a trunk and a frunk? Seconds ago -- there's one in my carport :-) (A 1993 Toyota MR2; it's mid-engine. The frunk is small, and completely filled by the spare tire and aftermarket stereo amp.)

gibolt 6y ago

I'd love to see a future where part of a plane's battery pack is a detachable drone that could fly back right after takeoff (most taxing on energy use) and thus decrease the weight of the plane. You could also have battery swaps during flight as they pass over drone battery depots. Sounds crazy. Might not be worth the gains for the complexity, but could be worth it across a whole fleet. Microwave laser groundstations (or solar satellites) could come first, removing much of the battery requirement.

tengbretson 6y ago
Hah, now you've got me imagining a gentle rain of 18650 batteries following a plane as it travels across the sky.
- gibolt 6y ago
  Yes, gentle :D
mikeyouse 6y ago
Seems like you'd be better off with a ground-based catapult system to get the plane up to speed and in the air where the on-board motors could take over.
- gibolt 6y ago
  If these are passenger aircraft, that probably wouldn't fly
  - microcolonel 6y ago
    > If these are passenger aircraft, that probably wouldn't fly Well, it doesn't need to have the same rate of acceleration as a carrier's, but honestly it just doesn't make sense in general.
    - mikeyouse 6y ago

oh_sigh 6y ago

My SUV is 4500 lbs and has a 17 gallon tank. Gasoline weighs ~6lbs/gallon, so it only factors for about 2% of total mass between a full and empty tank. Seems safe to mostly ignore it.