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> "Keep your distance, wear a mask, and stick to small groups" is not the same as "do not socialize". Ok, but then we have people doing solo activities, all by

by Alupis 6y ago

> "Keep your distance, wear a mask, and stick to small groups" is not the same as "do not socialize". Ok, but then we have people doing solo activities, all by themselves, minding their own business -- getting arrested by lunatics[1] because we said no beach allowed during Covid[2]! How do we reconcile that? [1] https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-04-03/paddle-boarder-arrested-in-malibu-after-flouting-coronavirus-closures https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-04-03/paddle-b... [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpsaSfoqUtU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpsaSfoqUtU

ceejayoz 6y ago
> April 3, 2020 You'll find California (and everywhere else) has loosened up substantially on outdoor activities, as we have substantially more information in recent months on outdoor versus indoor transmission. We've learned a lot since April about COVID-19.
- Alupis 6y ago
  Even during the height of beach-chasing in the LA area, it was well known being outdoors was far safer than being stuck indoors. It wasn't about safety. Arresting a lone surfer or lone beach jogger isn't about safety. It's about compliance. You must comply.
  - chillwaves 6y ago
    Maybe some people think enforcing compliance is about safety. This whole discussion is absurd. If people actually did comply, then they wouldn't get arrested and we would have had a far more successful outcome nationwide.
    - mixmastamyk 6y ago
      No one (statistically) was spreading it at the beach, so all the hand-wringing and blaming now and then that you're engaging in has shown to be arrogant and incorrect.
  - alicemaz 6y ago
    people who act like joggers are the real threat mostly don't exercise, just as people who say things like "I don't understand why people need to get together" mostly are introverts, people who think the anti-lockdown protestors are lunatics generally don't own brick and mortor businesses, etc. people are scared and want someone to blame, ideally someone who isn't like them. and it's naturally much easier to see the things you do as essential, but the things you don't do as nonessential
bsder 6y ago
> because we said no beach allowed during Covid We said "No beach during Covid" because a bunch of lunatics flooded the open beaches. And while the beach may not be a problem, those same lunatics flood the gas stations, Walmarts, etc. and DON'T WEAR MASKS. In addition, California never really locked down. California has almost continuously had an R0 above 1.0. Mostly due to the lunatics in Southern California. If you want to open the beaches and arrest anybody not local, fine. The problem with THAT is that you now have to patrol for it--which creates in-person contact. So, we shut the beaches completely. Sorry you can't surf. Tell your population cohort to wear your masks and stay the hell out of parties and maybe California will get below R0 one day. Or not. And this crap can continue until we get a vaccine.
- Alupis 6y ago
  Why is it not OK to jog on the beach by yourself? You don't seem to have an answer for that. Don't allow large gatherings? OK fine, I might object to this, but I can see the other side at least. Not allowing individuals to do individual activities? That seems misguided at best. After all, we do allow Ice Cream Parlors to be open, and outdoor seating at restaurants where you sit in close proximity to other people who are not wearing masks... how is that better than jogging on the beach all by yourself? They aren't better, and none of this is actually about safety nor is it about "Flattening the Curve" anymore. We flattened the curve long, long ago. No, it's not about safety, it's about compliance. You will comply, regardless of how illogical or contradictory certain County Health Official Edicts are.
  - bsder 6y ago
    > Not allowing individuals to do individual activities? That seems misguided at best. Please reread my post. I already told you what the problem was. A zillion people flooded the open beaches. The problem is that those zillion people then go places other than the beach and spread Covid. The only real way to prevent that is to simply close the beach. Yes, that sucks for locals. So far, you have not presented an alternative solution. "Reopen the things!" is NOT a solution--it's idiocy. However, you know what sucks more for locals? Getting Covid 19 from a bunch of out-of-towners because you work at the grocery stores, gas stations, etc. that they all flood after the beach. Stop being a selfish prat. If you just have to be outdoors, go hike the mountains.

by Alupis 6y ago

ceejayoz 6y ago

> April 3, 2020 You'll find California (and everywhere else) has loosened up substantially on outdoor activities, as we have substantially more information in recent months on outdoor versus indoor transmission. We've learned a lot since April about COVID-19.

Alupis 6y ago
Even during the height of beach-chasing in the LA area, it was well known being outdoors was far safer than being stuck indoors. It wasn't about safety. Arresting a lone surfer or lone beach jogger isn't about safety. It's about compliance. You must comply.
- chillwaves 6y ago
  Maybe some people think enforcing compliance is about safety. This whole discussion is absurd. If people actually did comply, then they wouldn't get arrested and we would have had a far more successful outcome nationwide.
  - mixmastamyk 6y ago
    No one (statistically) was spreading it at the beach, so all the hand-wringing and blaming now and then that you're engaging in has shown to be arrogant and incorrect.
- alicemaz 6y ago
  people who act like joggers are the real threat mostly don't exercise, just as people who say things like "I don't understand why people need to get together" mostly are introverts, people who think the anti-lockdown protestors are lunatics generally don't own brick and mortor businesses, etc. people are scared and want someone to blame, ideally someone who isn't like them. and it's naturally much easier to see the things you do as essential, but the things you don't do as nonessential

bsder 6y ago

> because we said no beach allowed during Covid We said "No beach during Covid" because a bunch of lunatics flooded the open beaches. And while the beach may not be a problem, those same lunatics flood the gas stations, Walmarts, etc. and DON'T WEAR MASKS. In addition, California never really locked down. California has almost continuously had an R0 above 1.0. Mostly due to the lunatics in Southern California. If you want to open the beaches and arrest anybody not local, fine. The problem with THAT is that you now have to patrol for it--which creates in-person contact. So, we shut the beaches completely. Sorry you can't surf. Tell your population cohort to wear your masks and stay the hell out of parties and maybe California will get below R0 one day. Or not. And this crap can continue until we get a vaccine.

Alupis 6y ago
Why is it not OK to jog on the beach by yourself? You don't seem to have an answer for that. Don't allow large gatherings? OK fine, I might object to this, but I can see the other side at least. Not allowing individuals to do individual activities? That seems misguided at best. After all, we do allow Ice Cream Parlors to be open, and outdoor seating at restaurants where you sit in close proximity to other people who are not wearing masks... how is that better than jogging on the beach all by yourself? They aren't better, and none of this is actually about safety nor is it about "Flattening the Curve" anymore. We flattened the curve long, long ago. No, it's not about safety, it's about compliance. You will comply, regardless of how illogical or contradictory certain County Health Official Edicts are.
- bsder 6y ago
  > Not allowing individuals to do individual activities? That seems misguided at best. Please reread my post. I already told you what the problem was. A zillion people flooded the open beaches. The problem is that those zillion people then go places other than the beach and spread Covid. The only real way to prevent that is to simply close the beach. Yes, that sucks for locals. So far, you have not presented an alternative solution. "Reopen the things!" is NOT a solution--it's idiocy. However, you know what sucks more for locals? Getting Covid 19 from a bunch of out-of-towners because you work at the grocery stores, gas stations, etc. that they all flood after the beach. Stop being a selfish prat. If you just have to be outdoors, go hike the mountains.