5 ms·

> Workers can't usually live too much without finding a job. > Companies will always push for lower wages wherever they can but it's not just megacorp tho. m

> Workers can't usually live too much without finding a job. > Companies will always push for lower wages wherever they can but it's not just megacorp tho. minimum wage will lower employment from small business significantly; i.e. small shop owner will get by with one less garcon to pay the other one more. and if you think that can be resolved just by ample unemployment benefits, look no further than the Dublin heroin epidemic. maybe two tier of minimum hourly wage + progressive hour cap could work: x$/month minimum wage for part time capped at 20 hour/week, x+50%/month for full time workers. but it's a thorny issue where in the fight between drones and megacorp it's easy to incur in collateral damage around the middle.

monocasa 6y ago
Who are these mom and pops that are hiring extraneous workers? If they can get rid of a position, they probably already have.
- kube-system 6y ago
  They're out there. Mom-and-pops are not known for their efficiency. I've known some that hire people as a favor to friends/family/community. ("hey, my kid needs a summer job, do you have a job for them?") Heck, there are entire mom-and-pop shops that exist not as a serious income stream, but as a hobby. If you're running a business with <5 people, hiring an 'unnecessary' person could just be a luxury so that the business owner can take a vacation or get an extra hour of sleep... and when times are tough, they forego that luxury. These are probably not a significant part of the overarching discussion here, though.
  - monocasa 6y ago
    I've seen "my kid needs a summer job" way more at medium size $100m/yr revenue companies where that can be hidden in the budget easier, and you can get a kickback for internships if you play your cards right as one of those companies. And it is relevant, because there's a lot of data that there is no negative effect on employment elasticity, but there is significant publication bias in the field. And what always gets brought out is the argument that "businesses will start letting extra people go". They already do that even without minimum wage increases.
mdoms 6y ago
> minimum wage will lower employment from small business significantly Can you show some data that demonstrates this? Because, despite all of the wailing and gnashing of teeth (and flawed economic theory), in my country this has never been shown to be an actual effect after minimum wages go up.
- LoSboccacc 6y ago
  https://epionline.org/wp-content/studies/sabia_05-2006.pdf https://epionline.org/wp-content/studies/sabia_05-2006.pdf
gjulianm 6y ago
> minimum wage will lower employment from small business significantly; i.e. small shop owner will get by with one less garcon to pay the other one more. As a counterpoint, where do we put the threshold then? I could argue that if I could pay employees in breadcrumbs, I could create a new company that would be profitable and I would increase employment! In this issue, either you're driven by empirical data of the exact effect of minimum wage on social welfare (which is impossible to achieve without actually doing those changes) or you're driven by ideology. Mine is that someone with a full time job should at least be able to live a decent life, specially in our current society where we clearly have the capacity to do so.

monocasa 6y ago

Who are these mom and pops that are hiring extraneous workers? If they can get rid of a position, they probably already have.

kube-system 6y ago
They're out there. Mom-and-pops are not known for their efficiency. I've known some that hire people as a favor to friends/family/community. ("hey, my kid needs a summer job, do you have a job for them?") Heck, there are entire mom-and-pop shops that exist not as a serious income stream, but as a hobby. If you're running a business with <5 people, hiring an 'unnecessary' person could just be a luxury so that the business owner can take a vacation or get an extra hour of sleep... and when times are tough, they forego that luxury. These are probably not a significant part of the overarching discussion here, though.
- monocasa 6y ago
  I've seen "my kid needs a summer job" way more at medium size $100m/yr revenue companies where that can be hidden in the budget easier, and you can get a kickback for internships if you play your cards right as one of those companies. And it is relevant, because there's a lot of data that there is no negative effect on employment elasticity, but there is significant publication bias in the field. And what always gets brought out is the argument that "businesses will start letting extra people go". They already do that even without minimum wage increases.

mdoms 6y ago

> minimum wage will lower employment from small business significantly Can you show some data that demonstrates this? Because, despite all of the wailing and gnashing of teeth (and flawed economic theory), in my country this has never been shown to be an actual effect after minimum wages go up.

LoSboccacc 6y ago
https://epionline.org/wp-content/studies/sabia_05-2006.pdf https://epionline.org/wp-content/studies/sabia_05-2006.pdf

gjulianm 6y ago

> minimum wage will lower employment from small business significantly; i.e. small shop owner will get by with one less garcon to pay the other one more. As a counterpoint, where do we put the threshold then? I could argue that if I could pay employees in breadcrumbs, I could create a new company that would be profitable and I would increase employment! In this issue, either you're driven by empirical data of the exact effect of minimum wage on social welfare (which is impossible to achieve without actually doing those changes) or you're driven by ideology. Mine is that someone with a full time job should at least be able to live a decent life, specially in our current society where we clearly have the capacity to do so.