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> Look at the middle east, countries like Saudi, Iran, Kuwait, Qatar have done it for decades. False, according the the World Bank : “Currently, no country has

> Look at the middle east, countries like Saudi, Iran, Kuwait, Qatar have done it for decades. False, according the the World Bank : “Currently, no country has a UBI in place, although there have been (and still are) several small-scale pilots and a few larger-scale experiences. Only two countries—Mongolia and the Islamic Republic of Iran—had a national UBI in place for a short period of time.“ https://www.worldbank.org/en/topic/socialprotection/publication/exploring-universal-basic-income-a-guide-to-navigating-concepts-evidence-and-practices https://www.worldbank.org/en/topic/socialprotection/publicat...

bilal4hmed 6y ago
that is false, living in the Middle East and know whats up https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizen%27s_Account_Program_(Saudi_Arabia) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizen%27s_Account_Program_(S... https://basicincome.org/news/2011/05/kuwait-a-temporary-partial-basic-income-for-citizens-only/ https://basicincome.org/news/2011/05/kuwait-a-temporary-part...
- joubert 6y ago
  Thanks for those links. It got me reading more to deepen my understanding. I should say that my intent is not to invalidate your living experience, but rather to learn more. Here’s what I’ve found so far: Saudi Arabia - dependence on foreign labor (since you claimed UBI is the cause): “ In answer to the question of why the Saudi economy is so dependent on foreign labor, the UN Arab Human Development Report blamed stunted social and economic development inhibited by lack of personal freedom, poor education and government hiring based on factors other than merit, and exclusion of women.” See “Challenges” section in https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Saudi_Arabia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Saudi_Arabia - Reminded myself again that Saudi Arabia was a subsistence economy until the early 1930s, before their oil-based economy started. - learned about the difficulties and the strategies (incl. the Citizens Account Program you linked to) to reduce dependency on oil reserves. - Learned that the Citizens Account Program was introduced in 2017, so claims to its effect prior to that seems incorrect, unless there was some prior form of it. Kuwait The article you linked to describes a temporary program that ended 7 years ago. I did find other articles that talk about work incentives (e.g. https://www.wellesley.edu/albright/about/blog/3926-downsides-universal-basic-income https://www.wellesley.edu/albright/about/blog/3926-downsides...) but haven’t digested and critically evaluated to draw a confident conclusion. Overall observation Your opening assertion (“ countries like Saudi, Iran, Kuwait, Qatar have done it for decades.”) doesn’t appear to be a fair appraisal.
  - bilal4hmed 6y ago
    No worries, as you can imagine getting information about the programs in these countries at times can be tough :) In general, being a citizen of a Gulf Cooperation Council gives you the following 1) Free healthcare 2) Free education including study abroad 3) Stipend monthly 4) Free electricity and water Other countries may have more or a little less. Like qataris get an allocation of land if they marry another citizen. The general qatari population is 15% while immigrant population is 85%. They might have different names for it or its obfuscated but a form of UBI has been going on for decades, since I have friends who are nationals and ive been here for 30+ years. The information might not be freely available. Here is a page from the archive about Qatar https://web.archive.org/web/20150430001945/https://portal.www.gov.qa/wps/portal/topics/Family,+Community+and+Religion/Social+Protection+and+Welfare https://web.archive.org/web/20150430001945/https://portal.ww... . It is no longer live, but they mention an adequate income

bilal4hmed 6y ago

that is false, living in the Middle East and know whats up https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizen%27s_Account_Program_(Saudi_Arabia) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizen%27s_Account_Program_(S... https://basicincome.org/news/2011/05/kuwait-a-temporary-partial-basic-income-for-citizens-only/ https://basicincome.org/news/2011/05/kuwait-a-temporary-part...

joubert 6y ago
Thanks for those links. It got me reading more to deepen my understanding. I should say that my intent is not to invalidate your living experience, but rather to learn more. Here’s what I’ve found so far: Saudi Arabia - dependence on foreign labor (since you claimed UBI is the cause): “ In answer to the question of why the Saudi economy is so dependent on foreign labor, the UN Arab Human Development Report blamed stunted social and economic development inhibited by lack of personal freedom, poor education and government hiring based on factors other than merit, and exclusion of women.” See “Challenges” section in https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Saudi_Arabia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Saudi_Arabia - Reminded myself again that Saudi Arabia was a subsistence economy until the early 1930s, before their oil-based economy started. - learned about the difficulties and the strategies (incl. the Citizens Account Program you linked to) to reduce dependency on oil reserves. - Learned that the Citizens Account Program was introduced in 2017, so claims to its effect prior to that seems incorrect, unless there was some prior form of it. Kuwait The article you linked to describes a temporary program that ended 7 years ago. I did find other articles that talk about work incentives (e.g. https://www.wellesley.edu/albright/about/blog/3926-downsides-universal-basic-income https://www.wellesley.edu/albright/about/blog/3926-downsides...) but haven’t digested and critically evaluated to draw a confident conclusion. Overall observation Your opening assertion (“ countries like Saudi, Iran, Kuwait, Qatar have done it for decades.”) doesn’t appear to be a fair appraisal.
- bilal4hmed 6y ago
  No worries, as you can imagine getting information about the programs in these countries at times can be tough :) In general, being a citizen of a Gulf Cooperation Council gives you the following 1) Free healthcare 2) Free education including study abroad 3) Stipend monthly 4) Free electricity and water Other countries may have more or a little less. Like qataris get an allocation of land if they marry another citizen. The general qatari population is 15% while immigrant population is 85%. They might have different names for it or its obfuscated but a form of UBI has been going on for decades, since I have friends who are nationals and ive been here for 30+ years. The information might not be freely available. Here is a page from the archive about Qatar https://web.archive.org/web/20150430001945/https://portal.www.gov.qa/wps/portal/topics/Family,+Community+and+Religion/Social+Protection+and+Welfare https://web.archive.org/web/20150430001945/https://portal.ww... . It is no longer live, but they mention an adequate income