6 ms·

I wonder if this is a language confusion. An argument is using reasoning to move from premises to conclusion. People regularly have to argue together to work to

I wonder if this is a language confusion. An argument is using reasoning to move from premises to conclusion. People regularly have to argue together to work together, because things change over time and we have to adjust to the changes. But the other sense of argument is that one person has one conclusion, and the other person has a different conclusion, and they are battling about it and are upset about it. That's the sort of thing that can be entirely avoided if people start with shared premises and argue "together". I think there are a lot of happy couples that actually never argue in the battling/upset sense.

jerf 6y ago
"An argument is using reasoning to move from premises to conclusion." Dictionary definition discussions are weak at the best of times, but they're super weak when the definition you're choosing for the word isn't even the most common one, whereas the article clearly is using the most common one, and is perfectly correct in that usage. We all know that's not the definition in question.
- tunesmith 6y ago
  I'm sort of surprised by both the replies to my comment so far, because I think it's the article itself that conflates the two definitions. When the quote is, "Happy couples tend to take a solution-oriented approach to conflict, and this is clear even in the topics that they choose to discuss" that's clearly pointing to the more academic definition of "argument" and not the "upset about opposing points of view" definition. If two people are taking a solution-oriented approach regarding a conflict they are choosing to discuss, would you normally describe them as "arguing" in the emotional sense? I'd also disagree that one is significantly more common than the other, when the phrase "making an argument" is so commonly understood.
  - arcticfox 6y ago
    I'd be shocked to find more than 1 in 1000 English speakers to interpret an couple arguing as anything other than > 1) an exchange of diverging or opposite views, typically a heated or angry one. As opposed to a definition common in other contexts, eg academic, legal, political, like > 2) a reason or set of reasons given with the aim of persuading others that an action or idea is right or wrong.
    - tunesmith 6y ago
      Would 999 out of 1000 people describe "taking a solution-oriented approach to conflict" as a heated exchange of diverging or opposite views? It's probably just a sloppy article - the paper's abstract doesn't describe that behavior as "arguing". In fact, the string "arg" doesn't show up on the study's page at all: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/335327845_What_are_the_Marital_Problems_of_Happy_Couples_A_Multimethod_Two-Sample_Investigation https://www.researchgate.net/publication/335327845_What_are_...
chrisseaton 6y ago
> An argument is using reasoning to move from premises to conclusion. This is obviously not what they mean in this context.
- tunesmith 6y ago
  They are literally describing "Happy couples tend to take a solution-oriented approach to conflict, and this is clear even in the topics that they choose to discuss" as an argument.
  - chrisseaton 6y ago
    No the 'conflict' in that sentence is the argument they are having.
    - tunesmith 6y ago
      People can resolve conflict without it turning into an argument, which is exactly what that sentence seems to be describing. I wouldn't describe them as arguing. Is that couple having an argument or not? Doesn't this depend on how "argument" is defined, which was my original point?
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      - HeWhoLurksLate 6y ago
        'Heated Debate' is another similair phrase- IMO the difference between a 'heated debate' and an argument and a fight has to do with the level of severity of the thing involved, as well as the scope of where the heat is being brought, and what's being attacked. Here's kinda what I'm thinking for a division- Debating is more or less arguing a point or idea with someone else, heated debates are still arguing over the point. Fighting happens when the debate and points argued over shift from being about the merits of the point to the merits of the speaker (e.g. their history, esp. when, as others mentioned, it becomes a highly critical / mean meta-analysis) - this is the kind of thing that becomes especially harmful to partnerships. Also, W/RT damage to partnerships, etc., a heated debate about what desktop wallpaper someone should pick can probabmy damage a relationship just fine.

jerf 6y ago

"An argument is using reasoning to move from premises to conclusion." Dictionary definition discussions are weak at the best of times, but they're super weak when the definition you're choosing for the word isn't even the most common one, whereas the article clearly is using the most common one, and is perfectly correct in that usage. We all know that's not the definition in question.

tunesmith 6y ago
I'm sort of surprised by both the replies to my comment so far, because I think it's the article itself that conflates the two definitions. When the quote is, "Happy couples tend to take a solution-oriented approach to conflict, and this is clear even in the topics that they choose to discuss" that's clearly pointing to the more academic definition of "argument" and not the "upset about opposing points of view" definition. If two people are taking a solution-oriented approach regarding a conflict they are choosing to discuss, would you normally describe them as "arguing" in the emotional sense? I'd also disagree that one is significantly more common than the other, when the phrase "making an argument" is so commonly understood.
- arcticfox 6y ago
  I'd be shocked to find more than 1 in 1000 English speakers to interpret an couple arguing as anything other than > 1) an exchange of diverging or opposite views, typically a heated or angry one. As opposed to a definition common in other contexts, eg academic, legal, political, like > 2) a reason or set of reasons given with the aim of persuading others that an action or idea is right or wrong.
  - tunesmith 6y ago
    Would 999 out of 1000 people describe "taking a solution-oriented approach to conflict" as a heated exchange of diverging or opposite views? It's probably just a sloppy article - the paper's abstract doesn't describe that behavior as "arguing". In fact, the string "arg" doesn't show up on the study's page at all: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/335327845_What_are_the_Marital_Problems_of_Happy_Couples_A_Multimethod_Two-Sample_Investigation https://www.researchgate.net/publication/335327845_What_are_...

chrisseaton 6y ago

> An argument is using reasoning to move from premises to conclusion. This is obviously not what they mean in this context.

tunesmith 6y ago
They are literally describing "Happy couples tend to take a solution-oriented approach to conflict, and this is clear even in the topics that they choose to discuss" as an argument.
- chrisseaton 6y ago
  No the 'conflict' in that sentence is the argument they are having.
  - tunesmith 6y ago
    People can resolve conflict without it turning into an argument, which is exactly what that sentence seems to be describing. I wouldn't describe them as arguing. Is that couple having an argument or not? Doesn't this depend on how "argument" is defined, which was my original point?
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    - HeWhoLurksLate 6y ago
      'Heated Debate' is another similair phrase- IMO the difference between a 'heated debate' and an argument and a fight has to do with the level of severity of the thing involved, as well as the scope of where the heat is being brought, and what's being attacked. Here's kinda what I'm thinking for a division- Debating is more or less arguing a point or idea with someone else, heated debates are still arguing over the point. Fighting happens when the debate and points argued over shift from being about the merits of the point to the merits of the speaker (e.g. their history, esp. when, as others mentioned, it becomes a highly critical / mean meta-analysis) - this is the kind of thing that becomes especially harmful to partnerships. Also, W/RT damage to partnerships, etc., a heated debate about what desktop wallpaper someone should pick can probabmy damage a relationship just fine.