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And yet Trump is doing basically same thing. Toppling our government, this time with sanctions. 50 years later when Iranian did see US as enemy, don’t act surp

And yet Trump is doing basically same thing. Toppling our government, this time with sanctions. 50 years later when Iranian did see US as enemy, don’t act surprised. This is what Trump sows.

justicezyx 6y ago
That's what China and Russia and many great powers in history did to their sphere of influence as well. They all come and go. Some learned their lessons, and some are yet to experience the bitter revenge from those they harm and molested.
sschueller 6y ago
As a non US person I don't see anything different between the current administration and the last. Just this one isn't polished behind good speaches and fooling the world that their foreign policy is any different. No one was held accountable, secret prisons continue and drone usegae was normalized. The wars continue and new ones are started.
- totalZero 6y ago
  > The wars continue and new ones are started. What new wars have been started under the current administration?
  - dbtc 6y ago
    I think maybe there aren't new or old wars anymore, just a single continuous amorphous conflict, against terrorism or whatever.
    - totalZero 6y ago
      To my knowledge Trump hasn't stepped outside the conflicts engaged by his predecessor. According to Bolton's book, Trump called off a strike on Iranian military facilities after a US drone was downed by Iran, because he didn't believe that the US should kill Iranians over the loss of a robot. Even the killing of Soleimani took place in Baghdad, where Soleimani (himself a commander of insurgent forces) was meeting with an Iraqi commander of insurgent forces. Hard to argue that this act fell outside the confines of the Congressionally authorized war in Iraq.
      - dbtc 6y ago
        Are Yemen and Somalia part of the congressionally authorized war in Iraq? It's not Trump's endless war, it's America's.
      - dragonwriter 6y ago
        > Hard to argue that this act fell outside the confines of the Congressionally authorized war in Iraq. Congress didn't authorize war “in Iraq”, but to protect against threats from Iraq (in context of the resolution, pretty clearly the State not the geographical area.)
  - Zenst 6y ago
    > What new wars have been started under the current administration? Many an internet flame-war, that's for sure. But then - how do you define war. The stage of official declaration all to arms type wars seem to be less clear-cut. Economics has and always will be the biggest weapon of wars these days.
    - totalZero 6y ago
      I'd probably refer to Obama's actions in Syria as an engagement of war. (I'm not saying he was right or wrong to go there, because I don't know all the facts about the Syria conflict.) I probably wouldn't refer to Trump's twitter commentary as warfare, inflammatory and counterproductive though it may be.
- boudin 6y ago
  I'm not sure people in Iran will agree... The economical crisis caused by trump's government and the impossibility of any other country to invest in the country anymore is a big shift.
  - minimuffins 6y ago
    That certainly did not start in the Trump administration.
    - boudin 6y ago
      Sanctions as they are now are quite different from what they were with the nuclear deal. That didn't start with trump yes, but saying there's no difference is insulting to all the people who are actually paying the price.
      - minimuffins 6y ago
        Good thing I'm not saying there's no difference then.
- post_below 6y ago
  As a US person I appreciate the clear view that US foreign policy has been evil even under popular administrations, and every one of them were complicit in that evil. But tread lightly when comparing this administration to any other in the history of western democracy. It's a horror show up close.
plandis 6y ago
We will have to agree to disagree. I’m American and all I’ve ever seen from Iran is people chanting for my death and the death of the people I love. I was born in the 90s and had no bearing on foreign policy. If sanctions prevents Iran from accomplishing those goals then I personally will consider that a good thing.
- notsureaboutpg 6y ago
  I mean the USA shot down an Iranian passenger plane killing all the civilians inside it. The USA sanctioned medical supplies from a country battling a pandemic. The USA armed Saddam Hussein to invade and fight a decade long war with Iran. The US has been consistently trying to destroy the nation of Iran. Iran holds demonstrations calling for the destruction of America but they never fought the US in any kind of war. When 9/11 happened, they were one of the only countries in the Middle East to have nationwide moments of silence and prayers for victims in America. Iran also has been one of the biggest fighters of ISIS in Iraq. They are able to mobilize civilian volunteers in Iraq in a way any other organization would envy. It's really crazy how much reality you have to ignore to believe there is any justification for US sanctions on Iran or to justify why you think Iranians should not be angry at the US
- techer 6y ago
  Chanting for your death? Source please..
  - plandis 6y ago
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-usa-embassy/iranians-chant-death-to-america-to-mark-u-s-embassy-seizure-idUSKBN1XE0KK https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-usa-embassy/iranians... Just do a google search there are many many instances.
- boudin 6y ago
  First, not all Iranian people are chanting your death. This is the propaganda from both sides that says that. Sanctions currently have the effect at making people in Iran even more dependant of the government, and plays well into the Iranian government propaganda.
pmoriarty 6y ago
Many Americans are very apolitical, and either don't know or don't care about what the US government does if it doesn't affect them or their friends and families. When they do care about politics, it's mostly about domestic politics, and Americans tend to have a massive ignorance about what's going on in the rest of the world or the history of any other country. Civic education and history are not a high priority in the US. American schools tend to be more interested in pumping out people with STEM degrees and business people than about teaching them anything to do with the humanities. On top of that Americans are constantly lied to and manipulated by their media and politicians, and politicians often act in ways that the American people don't approve of or are not informed of. So I wouldn't blame the American people for Trump's actions. More and half of those Americans who voted (who aren't nearly all Americans old enough to vote), most voted against electing Trump to be President, and many of them despise him. That said, Hillary Clinton was a hawk, so even had she become President it's not clear how favorable US government policy would have been towards Iran. But I wouldn't blame the American people for that either, as America's policy towards Iran was never a major issue in the election (if it was an issue at all), and Americans don't tend to even elect people on policies or issues (which they rarely pay attention to unless it affects them) but on the candidate's image and personality. Anyway, most Americans have no clue what the US foreign policy towards Iran is, couldn't find Iran on the map, and don't have even have the faintest idea about its history or the history of Iranian-American relations. And for those who know something about it, what they do know (or think they know) probably comes from an occasional 2 minute segment on TV news. People (all over the world) generally just want to live their lives and be left alone. They don't deserve to be branded enemies for the actions of their governments.

And yet Trump is doing basically same thing. Toppling our government, this time with sanctions. 50 years later when Iranian did see US as enemy, don’t act surprised. This is what Trump sows.

justicezyx 6y ago

That's what China and Russia and many great powers in history did to their sphere of influence as well. They all come and go. Some learned their lessons, and some are yet to experience the bitter revenge from those they harm and molested.

sschueller 6y ago

As a non US person I don't see anything different between the current administration and the last. Just this one isn't polished behind good speaches and fooling the world that their foreign policy is any different. No one was held accountable, secret prisons continue and drone usegae was normalized. The wars continue and new ones are started.

totalZero 6y ago
> The wars continue and new ones are started. What new wars have been started under the current administration?
- dbtc 6y ago
  I think maybe there aren't new or old wars anymore, just a single continuous amorphous conflict, against terrorism or whatever.
  - totalZero 6y ago
    To my knowledge Trump hasn't stepped outside the conflicts engaged by his predecessor. According to Bolton's book, Trump called off a strike on Iranian military facilities after a US drone was downed by Iran, because he didn't believe that the US should kill Iranians over the loss of a robot. Even the killing of Soleimani took place in Baghdad, where Soleimani (himself a commander of insurgent forces) was meeting with an Iraqi commander of insurgent forces. Hard to argue that this act fell outside the confines of the Congressionally authorized war in Iraq.
    - dbtc 6y ago
      Are Yemen and Somalia part of the congressionally authorized war in Iraq? It's not Trump's endless war, it's America's.
    - dragonwriter 6y ago
      > Hard to argue that this act fell outside the confines of the Congressionally authorized war in Iraq. Congress didn't authorize war “in Iraq”, but to protect against threats from Iraq (in context of the resolution, pretty clearly the State not the geographical area.)
- Zenst 6y ago
  > What new wars have been started under the current administration? Many an internet flame-war, that's for sure. But then - how do you define war. The stage of official declaration all to arms type wars seem to be less clear-cut. Economics has and always will be the biggest weapon of wars these days.
  - totalZero 6y ago
    I'd probably refer to Obama's actions in Syria as an engagement of war. (I'm not saying he was right or wrong to go there, because I don't know all the facts about the Syria conflict.) I probably wouldn't refer to Trump's twitter commentary as warfare, inflammatory and counterproductive though it may be.
boudin 6y ago
I'm not sure people in Iran will agree... The economical crisis caused by trump's government and the impossibility of any other country to invest in the country anymore is a big shift.
- minimuffins 6y ago
  That certainly did not start in the Trump administration.
  - boudin 6y ago
    Sanctions as they are now are quite different from what they were with the nuclear deal. That didn't start with trump yes, but saying there's no difference is insulting to all the people who are actually paying the price.
    - minimuffins 6y ago
      Good thing I'm not saying there's no difference then.
post_below 6y ago
As a US person I appreciate the clear view that US foreign policy has been evil even under popular administrations, and every one of them were complicit in that evil. But tread lightly when comparing this administration to any other in the history of western democracy. It's a horror show up close.

plandis 6y ago

We will have to agree to disagree. I’m American and all I’ve ever seen from Iran is people chanting for my death and the death of the people I love. I was born in the 90s and had no bearing on foreign policy. If sanctions prevents Iran from accomplishing those goals then I personally will consider that a good thing.

notsureaboutpg 6y ago
I mean the USA shot down an Iranian passenger plane killing all the civilians inside it. The USA sanctioned medical supplies from a country battling a pandemic. The USA armed Saddam Hussein to invade and fight a decade long war with Iran. The US has been consistently trying to destroy the nation of Iran. Iran holds demonstrations calling for the destruction of America but they never fought the US in any kind of war. When 9/11 happened, they were one of the only countries in the Middle East to have nationwide moments of silence and prayers for victims in America. Iran also has been one of the biggest fighters of ISIS in Iraq. They are able to mobilize civilian volunteers in Iraq in a way any other organization would envy. It's really crazy how much reality you have to ignore to believe there is any justification for US sanctions on Iran or to justify why you think Iranians should not be angry at the US
techer 6y ago
Chanting for your death? Source please..
- plandis 6y ago
  https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-usa-embassy/iranians-chant-death-to-america-to-mark-u-s-embassy-seizure-idUSKBN1XE0KK https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-usa-embassy/iranians... Just do a google search there are many many instances.
boudin 6y ago
First, not all Iranian people are chanting your death. This is the propaganda from both sides that says that. Sanctions currently have the effect at making people in Iran even more dependant of the government, and plays well into the Iranian government propaganda.

pmoriarty 6y ago

Many Americans are very apolitical, and either don't know or don't care about what the US government does if it doesn't affect them or their friends and families. When they do care about politics, it's mostly about domestic politics, and Americans tend to have a massive ignorance about what's going on in the rest of the world or the history of any other country. Civic education and history are not a high priority in the US. American schools tend to be more interested in pumping out people with STEM degrees and business people than about teaching them anything to do with the humanities. On top of that Americans are constantly lied to and manipulated by their media and politicians, and politicians often act in ways that the American people don't approve of or are not informed of. So I wouldn't blame the American people for Trump's actions. More and half of those Americans who voted (who aren't nearly all Americans old enough to vote), most voted against electing Trump to be President, and many of them despise him. That said, Hillary Clinton was a hawk, so even had she become President it's not clear how favorable US government policy would have been towards Iran. But I wouldn't blame the American people for that either, as America's policy towards Iran was never a major issue in the election (if it was an issue at all), and Americans don't tend to even elect people on policies or issues (which they rarely pay attention to unless it affects them) but on the candidate's image and personality. Anyway, most Americans have no clue what the US foreign policy towards Iran is, couldn't find Iran on the map, and don't have even have the faintest idea about its history or the history of Iranian-American relations. And for those who know something about it, what they do know (or think they know) probably comes from an occasional 2 minute segment on TV news. People (all over the world) generally just want to live their lives and be left alone. They don't deserve to be branded enemies for the actions of their governments.