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The stock market is not the economy, that is absolutely true. But why exactly is that made clearer right now? Considering we have been in a pandemic for 5 mont

The stock market is not the economy, that is absolutely true. But why exactly is that made clearer right now? Considering we have been in a pandemic for 5 months now, I would say we are faring pretty well economically. Consumer spending is back up. Unemployment is going back down. The real estate market is healthy. Prices are stable. There are certainly people and industries not doing well and we should help them. There are also people and industries doing really well right now. I have seen no proof that the overall economy is hurting.

ceejayoz 6y ago
31M people just recently lost the $600 weekly unemployment boost that was keeping them afloat. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/08/06/600-dollar-unemployment-benefit/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/08/06/600-dolla...) Tens of millions are facing eviction in the coming months. (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/eviction-23-million-october/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/eviction-23-million-october/) The damage from this is just getting started, we're already in recession, and the stock market is setting all-time highs. It's a bit bizarre.
- dkdk8283 6y ago
  My customer owns a metal factory and complained about this: the unemployment boost made it impossible for him to fill low level positions as most would make more to stay home.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - asdff 6y ago
    You are taking a risk coming off unemployment in a pandemic. If you get laid off again, good luck getting back on unemployment. If people aren't taking the job, that means the pay is lower than the perceived risk to the worker, and should be raised.
  - calmworm 6y ago
    So, pay more?
  - mywittyname 6y ago
    I think that explanation is more of a political talking point than reality. I guess if you make people desperate enough, then they will start looking for new jobs. But I think he's grossly underestimating what's going on with society. Most people on unemployment are laid off. They are not applying for new jobs because they assume that they will have a job to go back to shortly. These people are also dealing with the clusterfuck surrounding schooling & childcare. From what I've seen, it's close to impossible to get your younger child back into childcare. The older ones taking remote classes in school require a good deal of adult attention. I don't think a lot of people would change jobs even for a big raise because things are so hectic right now. Even people here on HN are struggling to balance their lives, and these are people who earn good wages and have a lot of flexibility with their schedule.
  - orev 6y ago
    During a pandemic, that’s the point! You don’t want desperate people staying in the workforce and spreading the virus which kills more people. Having people stay home is what was supposed to happen!
- cloakandswagger 6y ago
  Not bizarre at all if you think about it. The economic hardship will motivate a substantial portion of our population to become more industrious. They'll fill any available job and do it productively since they're now at or below the poverty line. The stock market is setting new highs in anticipation of a renaissance in worker efficiency and business margins.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - chickenpotpie 6y ago
    Can we stop perpetuating this idea that poverty is going to make people work super hard to escape? It’s a debilitating state that traps people. It’s not a blessing of motivation. Studies have show poverty lowers IQ and overall health in almost every way. Happy, financially secure workers are productive ones. Hard to focus on your job when you’re wondering where your next meal is coming from and which bills you can push off until your next paycheck.
    - cloakandswagger 6y ago
      I question and reject the conclusion of any such study based on my own experience.
      - chickenpotpie 6y ago
        You’re rejecting the conclusion of studies that you haven’t even read?
      - dragonwriter 6y ago
        Anecdote > data?
        cloakandswagger 6y ago
        Personal observations and reasoning > crooked, conclusion-oriented "studies"
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
jarym 6y ago
Well travel is a huge part of almost every economy and they remain hit.
wjossey 6y ago
Other than GDP cratering in Q2 or massive unemployment, with incomes only remaining stable because we gave the vast majority of Americans $1,200 checks and $2,400 income boost if they were unemployed? We're not even in the first inning of this crisis - We're still in batting practice. The ripples and waves of this crisis will probably (just my arm chair opinion) last for years, if not the next decade. But, hey, who knows! Maybe it'll all be over and done with next spring post vaccine. We'll be back to 4% unemployment and it'll be like it never happened from an economic perspective. Seems unlikely to me, but I'm not an economist.
- mywittyname 6y ago
  > Maybe it'll all be over and done with next spring post vaccine. We'll be back to 4% unemployment and it'll be like it never happened from an economic perspective. I don't bet on this happening, but it is certainly a possible outcome. A lot of the issues we are facing are the result of supply shortages due to people not being able to operate in close proximity to one another. If not for Covid, then it's likely that the economy would have continued to grow. If you think about it, the US economy continued to grow over the past decade even while the collapse of the retail, energy, and agricultural sectors during that time frame. Once people are able to return to being in large groups, it's not unreasonable to expect growth to continue.
lm28469 6y ago
> we are faring pretty well economically. "We" as in "tech workers making several times the min wage" ? Or "we" as "people who already lived in precarious conditions before covid" ? Not to rain on your parade but _a lot_ of people are _very badly_ affected by the situation, especially in the US.

ceejayoz 6y ago

31M people just recently lost the $600 weekly unemployment boost that was keeping them afloat. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/08/06/600-dollar-unemployment-benefit/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/08/06/600-dolla...) Tens of millions are facing eviction in the coming months. (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/eviction-23-million-october/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/eviction-23-million-october/) The damage from this is just getting started, we're already in recession, and the stock market is setting all-time highs. It's a bit bizarre.

dkdk8283 6y ago
My customer owns a metal factory and complained about this: the unemployment boost made it impossible for him to fill low level positions as most would make more to stay home.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- asdff 6y ago
  You are taking a risk coming off unemployment in a pandemic. If you get laid off again, good luck getting back on unemployment. If people aren't taking the job, that means the pay is lower than the perceived risk to the worker, and should be raised.
- calmworm 6y ago
  So, pay more?
- mywittyname 6y ago
  I think that explanation is more of a political talking point than reality. I guess if you make people desperate enough, then they will start looking for new jobs. But I think he's grossly underestimating what's going on with society. Most people on unemployment are laid off. They are not applying for new jobs because they assume that they will have a job to go back to shortly. These people are also dealing with the clusterfuck surrounding schooling & childcare. From what I've seen, it's close to impossible to get your younger child back into childcare. The older ones taking remote classes in school require a good deal of adult attention. I don't think a lot of people would change jobs even for a big raise because things are so hectic right now. Even people here on HN are struggling to balance their lives, and these are people who earn good wages and have a lot of flexibility with their schedule.
- orev 6y ago
  During a pandemic, that’s the point! You don’t want desperate people staying in the workforce and spreading the virus which kills more people. Having people stay home is what was supposed to happen!
cloakandswagger 6y ago
Not bizarre at all if you think about it. The economic hardship will motivate a substantial portion of our population to become more industrious. They'll fill any available job and do it productively since they're now at or below the poverty line. The stock market is setting new highs in anticipation of a renaissance in worker efficiency and business margins.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- chickenpotpie 6y ago
  Can we stop perpetuating this idea that poverty is going to make people work super hard to escape? It’s a debilitating state that traps people. It’s not a blessing of motivation. Studies have show poverty lowers IQ and overall health in almost every way. Happy, financially secure workers are productive ones. Hard to focus on your job when you’re wondering where your next meal is coming from and which bills you can push off until your next paycheck.
  - cloakandswagger 6y ago
    I question and reject the conclusion of any such study based on my own experience.
    - chickenpotpie 6y ago
      You’re rejecting the conclusion of studies that you haven’t even read?
    - dragonwriter 6y ago
      Anecdote > data?
      - cloakandswagger 6y ago
        Personal observations and reasoning > crooked, conclusion-oriented "studies"

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

jarym 6y ago

Well travel is a huge part of almost every economy and they remain hit.

wjossey 6y ago

Other than GDP cratering in Q2 or massive unemployment, with incomes only remaining stable because we gave the vast majority of Americans $1,200 checks and $2,400 income boost if they were unemployed? We're not even in the first inning of this crisis - We're still in batting practice. The ripples and waves of this crisis will probably (just my arm chair opinion) last for years, if not the next decade. But, hey, who knows! Maybe it'll all be over and done with next spring post vaccine. We'll be back to 4% unemployment and it'll be like it never happened from an economic perspective. Seems unlikely to me, but I'm not an economist.

mywittyname 6y ago
> Maybe it'll all be over and done with next spring post vaccine. We'll be back to 4% unemployment and it'll be like it never happened from an economic perspective. I don't bet on this happening, but it is certainly a possible outcome. A lot of the issues we are facing are the result of supply shortages due to people not being able to operate in close proximity to one another. If not for Covid, then it's likely that the economy would have continued to grow. If you think about it, the US economy continued to grow over the past decade even while the collapse of the retail, energy, and agricultural sectors during that time frame. Once people are able to return to being in large groups, it's not unreasonable to expect growth to continue.

lm28469 6y ago

> we are faring pretty well economically. "We" as in "tech workers making several times the min wage" ? Or "we" as "people who already lived in precarious conditions before covid" ? Not to rain on your parade but _a lot_ of people are _very badly_ affected by the situation, especially in the US.