4 ms·

Data is personal property that is being handled without consent and without regard for social problems. There needs to be a hard stop put towards those practice

Data is personal property that is being handled without consent and without regard for social problems. There needs to be a hard stop put towards those practices.

giantg2 6y ago
In general I would agree, but how does that apply to the to the scenario we are discussing which is the CA DMV under the DPPA?
- HarryHirsch 6y ago
  These data were collected to ensure road safety. Anything unrelated to road safety is taboo. No enforcement of immigration, no debt collection, no enabling of stalking, especially no aggregation with other data sources.
  - giantg2 6y ago
    Actually that's only part of their intended use. The data is also used to collect tax (registration) and maintain records of ownership (titling). Many states also use this information to register, or solicit the individual to register, to vote. Law enforcement also uses this data for enforcing all manners of law when they look up a person to question or cite, not just immigration. Since drivers' licenses are used for identification, you can see that they are used on many government forms such as tax returns or background checks. Along these lines, the only way to ensure the government will not use your data would be to prevent the government from collecting and storing it (rough paraphrase from Snowden). But if you prevent the collection of the basic data referenced in the article, then how do you provide the same benefits to society that the systems do today? The issues you have seem not to be about the state releasing records but rather with how the government uses the data. The basic information referenced in the article is also available in other country's systems to many of the same organizations authorized under the DPPA. Given the system is also about titling and registration, the access by debt collectors would be warranted, especially if it is dealing with a vehicle. How exactly is this system enabling stalking given the protections of the DPPA? Do you have any examples of countries that don't aggregate data for government use and don't allow PIs to search many kinds of official documents? What system do you see that would replace the current one and maintain all the societal benefits but somehow increase privacy?
    - HarryHirsch 6y ago
      Somehow we fell down a slippery slope where a debt collector got access to unrelated DMV data. This is unacceptable, the alternative is to resist expanding scope.
      - giantg2 6y ago
        It is acceptable, that's why the law protecting DMV data categorically allows it, indicating that society approves of that use. It wasn't a slippery slope - the opposite in fact. The records were practically wide open and the DPPA set the limits on who can access it and for what reasons. I'd appreciate a real response to my prior comment. Simply stating your opinion that an action is unacceptable does not make for productive discourse.

Data is personal property that is being handled without consent and without regard for social problems. There needs to be a hard stop put towards those practices.

giantg2 6y ago

In general I would agree, but how does that apply to the to the scenario we are discussing which is the CA DMV under the DPPA?

HarryHirsch 6y ago
These data were collected to ensure road safety. Anything unrelated to road safety is taboo. No enforcement of immigration, no debt collection, no enabling of stalking, especially no aggregation with other data sources.
- giantg2 6y ago
  Actually that's only part of their intended use. The data is also used to collect tax (registration) and maintain records of ownership (titling). Many states also use this information to register, or solicit the individual to register, to vote. Law enforcement also uses this data for enforcing all manners of law when they look up a person to question or cite, not just immigration. Since drivers' licenses are used for identification, you can see that they are used on many government forms such as tax returns or background checks. Along these lines, the only way to ensure the government will not use your data would be to prevent the government from collecting and storing it (rough paraphrase from Snowden). But if you prevent the collection of the basic data referenced in the article, then how do you provide the same benefits to society that the systems do today? The issues you have seem not to be about the state releasing records but rather with how the government uses the data. The basic information referenced in the article is also available in other country's systems to many of the same organizations authorized under the DPPA. Given the system is also about titling and registration, the access by debt collectors would be warranted, especially if it is dealing with a vehicle. How exactly is this system enabling stalking given the protections of the DPPA? Do you have any examples of countries that don't aggregate data for government use and don't allow PIs to search many kinds of official documents? What system do you see that would replace the current one and maintain all the societal benefits but somehow increase privacy?
  - HarryHirsch 6y ago
    Somehow we fell down a slippery slope where a debt collector got access to unrelated DMV data. This is unacceptable, the alternative is to resist expanding scope.
    - giantg2 6y ago
      It is acceptable, that's why the law protecting DMV data categorically allows it, indicating that society approves of that use. It wasn't a slippery slope - the opposite in fact. The records were practically wide open and the DPPA set the limits on who can access it and for what reasons. I'd appreciate a real response to my prior comment. Simply stating your opinion that an action is unacceptable does not make for productive discourse.