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From farm to factory: the unstoppable rise of American chicken
- 9nGQluzmnq3M 6y ago> “If breast meat is worth two dollars a pound and dark meat is worth one dollar, which would I rather have?” Western countries are weird about this. Chicken breast, particularly the industrially produced Tyson broilers and their ilk, is bland, dry and tasteless. (There's an Anthony Bourdain quote which I can't find right now about chicken being what people who don't like food order in restaurants.) In Asian countries "dark" meat is preferred and sells at a premium, because it actually has some texture and taste.
- nine_zeros 6y agoNot just dark meat but actually well fed farm chickens that are alive until ordered. The animals are raised healthier and it shows in the taste and nutritional composition.
- maxerickson 6y agoShh. It's probably easier to cook dark meat also.
- selimthegrim 6y agoDark meat itself has more vitamins and minerals, no?
- bluedino 6y agoWings cost way, way more than breasts in the USA
- gruez 6y agoMaybe if you're comparing flats (most expensive wing) with bone-in skinned chicken breasts (cheapest breast). At least where I live, whole wings (or drumettes) are always cheaper than skinless/boneless chicken breasts.
- adamjb 6y agoI think I found the Anthony Bourdain quote: Like most other chefs I know, I’m amused when I hear people object to pork on nonreligious grounds. “Swine are filthy animals,” they say. These people have obviously never visited a poultry farm. Chicken—America’s favorite food—goes bad quickly; handled carelessly, it infects other foods with salmonella; and it bores the hell out of chefs. It occupies its ubiquitous place on menus as an option for customers who can’t decide what they want to eat. Most chefs believe that supermarket chickens in this country are slimy and tasteless compared with European varieties. from "Don't Eat Before Reading This", the essay which put him on the map as a writer. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1999/04/19/dont-eat-before-reading-this https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1999/04/19/dont-eat-befor...
- gruez 6y ago>I’m amused when I hear people object to pork on nonreligious grounds. “Swine are filthy animals,” they say. Is this actually a thing? That is, an agnostic/atheist refusing to eat pork because it's dirty? Also AFAIK "swine are filthy animals" is the justification for not eating pork in abrahamic religions.
- 9nGQluzmnq3M 6y agoThanks! That's the essay which was expanded into his first book, Kitchen Confidential, so it's likely in both in some form.
- cookiengineer 6y ago
- ip26 6y agoPretty sure it's a recent effect, a result of the lipid hypothesis. Basically, saturated fat was demonized, so Western countries looked for the leanest meats.
- wastedhours 6y agoYeah, I've never understood this - given the choice, I'd choose dark meat over chicken breast every time.
- breakbread 6y agoThe hype over dark meat has become a meme. I know Americans slept on dark meat for a while, and perhaps many still do, but in a certain slice of the foodie subculture (recipe bloggers, YouTube foodies, etc) this idea that dark meat is ALWAYS better than white meat has become this truism that, it seems to me at least, people like to slip in to signal how cultured they are or something. Personally, it just depends on the dish and what kind of mood I’m in. For example, if I’m wanting to make a pan sauce I’ll almost always go with white meat (usually bone-in split breast). Chicken parm? White meat, please For me, because dark meat itself is fattier and more flavorful by default, I find it can take over in many dishes where the meat is more of a vehicle for something else. Stir frys, however - I almost always opt for dark meat. Curries? It depends.
- wastedhours 6y agoDidn't realise I was playing into a meme - I've basically replaced most of my white meat use with off the bone thigh meat. You get a stronger taste for sure, but I've not yet found it actually jars with a recipe (and to be clear, complete anecdata based on dishes I prepare) to the extent the cons outweigh the pros.
- bserge 6y agoPeople got used to the taste. "Normal" hen that have roamed free since they hatched tastes quite different. Apparently people don't like it! It's the same with eggs - there's a noticeable difference in color and taste between farm and true free range eggs.
- bambax 6y agoHere in France we usually buy whole chickens to roast (yellow chickens are sold at a premium, although I'm not sure there's a big difference in taste). When served it's a kind of battle because the thigh go first, then the sticks ("pilon"), and the breasts last. Nobody wants them; sometimes they simply get thrown away as they tend to be dry and flavorless.
- porknubbins 6y agoNon organic chicken is one of the few foods I find to be really disturbingly cheap. .99 to $2/lb range for a living organism to have been fed, slaughtered, transported and marked up at retail is a little off putting.
- rmah 6y agoChicken is cheap because the feed conversion ratio is very good: apx 1.6 kg of feed (corn) in yields you 1kg of chicken out. Only some varieties of fish does better. In comparison, beef has a ratio of around 5 to 7 (10 if you just count the meat).
- Falling3 6y agoIt's also cheap because there are very few protections and regulations for the animals and the fact that selective breeding has gotten their farmed lifespan down to just 6 weeks.
- nemo44x 6y agoIt is designed to allow poor people to have meat. A modern miracle really. I don’t purchase it because I have enough money to buy chickens that been humanely raised. I believe this is a moral obligation if you can afford it. But I won’t judge people who can’t afford it to buy chickens raised this way. If my fortunes change I will be grateful I can still buy a chicken. While I’m not in that situation I will continue to consume free range, organic, “happy chickens” that only had 1 bad day.
- pacaro 6y agoI wonder about this too.it feels like the availability of cheap meat has a significant social.impact that I don't see discussed anywhere. If factory farmed meat was unavailable a significant section of society would only rarely be able to afford meat. Put another way, the availability of cheap meat disguises the true extent of poverty in this country
- throWaythxMod 6y ago
- somurzakov 6y agothats why the chicken outside US raised on small farms tastes 100x times better
- throWaythxMod 6y agoAhh European exceptionslism. I don't really buy into marketing and was extremely disappointed by the taste and quantity of food in the European countries I visited. There were exceptions, but the food is generally bland, and one of these countries was Italy. They really advertise the authenticity of ingredients, when they need to learn "salt, acid, sugar, msg, fat"
- newen 6y agoI can definitely tell that typical restaurant food is significantly higher quality than typical US restaurant food when I visited Spain and Italy. Doesn't really say much if someone can't because they might not have the tastebuds for it.
- diffeomorphism 6y ago> but the food is generally bland, Similar experience in the other direction. Food in LA was incredibly overseasoned and in particular drinks like lemonade were extremely sweet. After a while I got used to it/had dulled my sense of taste so that this tasted "normal" and European food "bland". Luckily after some time without American food my sense of taste returned to normal.
- somurzakov 6y agonot european,was talking about southeast asia
- xnyan 6y agoIt’s entirely possible that I just missed something, but in the few years I spent living in Europe, I saw about the same spectrum of chicken quality as in the United States. Low quality frozen chicken, then average quality fresh chicken, then high-quality and recently killed chicken.
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- poulsbohemian 6y agoWe live in farm country, so we talk and hypothesize about the future of food frequently. I'm inclined to think that we're going to see a lot more vegetarians in the US middle / upper middle class. I also have to wonder if we'll see a time where it is only the poor and the very rich who eat meat - the poor eating factory "meat" and the very rich eating traditionally raised / heritage / "organic" meat. We've cut way back on our meat consumption, because we wanted to actually know the origin of our food. At least in our circle of connections, it feels very much like there are a whole lot of vegetarians / infrequent meat eaters.
- throWaythxMod 6y agoI'm newly vegetarian since it's the cheapest way to eat (source- Efficiency Is Everything) Egg + milk vegetarian is quite easy and satisfied any meat cravings, where when I try to eat vegan I feel lacking. I know there's the whole morality behind chicken eggs and milk, so I don't see vegetarian as the end destination for anyone who cares about ethics/morals.
- bitdizzy 6y agoNutritional yeast, tamari, and dried mushrooms goes a long way for me.
- poulsbohemian 6y agoI'm curious to hear other points of view regarding eggs. We had long wanted chickens of our own, and this spring finally built a coop and got some birds. They should start laying later this year, with our intent being they will eventually supply all our family egg needs (which are considerable - on the order of 3+ dozen a week). These birds are seriously pampered and will presumably live long, natural lives beyond their "productive" years. While I can understand concerns about factory conditions for egg layers, is there anyone who believes there are ethical issues around eggs produced in the decidedly non-factory conditions of my backyard? I've been somewhat amazed by just how easy it has been to raise them so far and would advocate anyone who wants to enjoy eggs should give it a go. Regarding milk: Yes, I'm in agreement, for most adult humans the soy / almond / oat / etc options are perfectly good, apart perhaps from baking. Fish is the one area I don't personally see a good substitute, until the market tells me it is too expensive to continue eating.
- metta2uall 6y agoThis sort of extreme cruel exploitation of living beings with brains & feelings will be thought of in the future similarly to how we think about chattel slavery.. At least the next step in the industrialisation of meat should be a huge improvement - just growing brain-less muscles..
- testfoobar 6y agoI agree. We are removing statutes of Confederate figures and slave holders now. Schools, buildings are being renamed. I expect this list of schools named after Barack Obama to grow larger: https://www.google.com/search?q=schools+named+after+barack+obama&oq=scho&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j69i57j69i60l2j69i65j69i61.2815j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 https://www.google.com/search?q=schools+named+after+barack+o... Here is Barack Obama ordering burgers at Five Guys burgers: https://www.google.com/search?q=barack+obama+five+guys&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwikp7XXjqvrAhVkFjQIHSnWAYwQ_AUoAXoECAsQAw&biw=1307&bih=690 https://www.google.com/search?q=barack+obama+five+guys&sourc... It is well within bounds to imagine future generations being absolutely incensed that schools are named after meat-eaters consuming the end product of industrialized slaughter. It is easy to imagine future generations seeing us as monsters. Are we monsters?
- axaxs 6y agoNot as individual meat consumers, no. In the same way we don't see Yanks who bought cotton clothes as evil. It's all we have the choice to buy, really. As a society that breeds living things that are disfigured, can't walk, live in hell, and die... sure, we are evil. I won't give up meat. I will however do everything in my personal power to vote to end such practices and buy local, even if it means paying more. I think we just need to show more people. The meat industries have done a great job of hiding their awful secrets, often at the legislative level.
- Falling3 6y agoI won't deny that this is a systemic issue and we shouldn't place all the blame on individuals. But it's an absolutely ridiculous claim that it's our only choice. Don't waste you're money buying local because it really means nothing with respect to welfare of the animal. Instead try to reduce your consumption.
- spodek 6y agoTwo points worth noting: 1. Factory farming breeds viruses -- one of the main reasons people have been saying "when, not if" about pandemics for decades. We happened to get a coronavirus this time, but factory farms will produce a flu pandemic soon enough if we don't stop them, which we can. Here are two videos by Dr. Michael Greger for background: - Pandemics: History & Prevention: https://youtu.be/7_ppXSABYLY https://youtu.be/7_ppXSABYLY - Can we stop a future pandemic? Dr. Michael Greger M.D explains what’s next: https://youtu.be/N0pvR92XT30 https://youtu.be/N0pvR92XT30 2. We keep making markets more and more efficient and then lament when there's no resilience and small problems affect everyone everywhere. Redundancies and other inefficiencies aren't bad.
- Falling3 6y agoViruses and antibiotic resistance as well
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- Pfhreak 6y agoI rarely purchase meat, maybe once every two years, but when I do I buy directly from a local farmer whose farm I can visit. I've bought whole beef this way, and the quality to price ratio was amazing. Grass fed, organically raised, humanely treated beef for ~$5.50/lb. Granted, I had to buy hundreds of pounds of it, but I got all sorts of cuts, bones for broth, organs (tongue, heart, liver, etc.) The process was surprisingly simple, and I wish more people knew it was an option. I'd be happy to outline what was involved for anyone curious. I don't object to killing animals, but the way we raise them industrially is truly one of the horrors of our time. After committing to only eating animals I could trace the provenance of, I rarely eat meat these days, perhaps once or twice a month I'll pull something from the freezer. The variety of vegetarian and vegan options has really exploded.
- sgillen 6y agoI’d love to see an outline of this, I don’t know where to find these farmers. I briefly bought eggs from a local farmer but after moving have not been able to find a similar arrangement.
- gowld 6y agoIs "local farmer" better than "pasture raised" at the grocery story?
- Pfhreak 6y agoFor me, yes. The label pasture raised could still imply corn finished (and a feedlot or CAFO). Knowing the farmer, seeing the fields, and building a relationship with them holds emotional value to me. It cuts out the middle man too -- my money is going to a local farmer and a local butcher, I can specify exactly which cuts I want, how I want them prepared, etc.
- Pfhreak 6y agoFirst is finding a local farmer and knowing their timeline for a harvest. In Western Washington, you can use http://www.tilthalliance.org/ http://www.tilthalliance.org/ to look up farmers by product (meat, veg, fruits, eggs, fish, etc.) Reach out to farmers and see who actually has something available, ask any questions you have about how they raise the animal. Ask about their process for ordering and whether they'll transport to a butcher. Put a deposit down on an animal. Once you've put your deposit down, you wait for your harvest date. In my case, they transported the animal to the butcher, where it hung for a couple weeks. During that time, you prepare a 'cut sheet'. This describes how you'd like the animal prepared -- steaks or roasts, ground meat or not, etc. The butcher can walk you through this and tell you what's common. After a few weeks, the butcher will give you a call, your meat is ready! Drive there and load your car with hundreds of pounds of individually wrapped steaks, roasts, ground beef, stew meat, soup bones, etc. Drive home and load up your freezer, distribute to friends who went in on the purchase with you, etc. Lastly, figure out lots of recipes. Learn to braise, sous vide, grill, make smashburgers, whatever. You are going to be eating a lot of beef, explore world cultures. There are so many different ways to prepare it, French is so different than German, Japanese is different than Korean, American is different than Mexican, etc. You have hundreds of pounds of beef to eat, variety is important.
- fouc 6y ago>Counterintuitively perhaps, the industrialisation of chicken led to far fewer choices when buying poultry. This is actually a metaphor for what's happening in the computer industry currently.
- sturza 6y ago"chicken harvest"
- 082349872349872 6y agoFor context, the UK and US are currently negotiating a trade agreement which should cover, among other things, whether post-Brexit UK food safety laws will be relaxed in general, and specifically for chicken. The negotiations are currently on hold until after the elections in the latter jurisdiction, but once it's all completed and the terms made public, I'll get a chance to reevaluate my decision to call the UK "Airstrip One" due to its role within Oceania.
- wastedhours 6y agoI don't forsee it having a major impact in the purchasing of raw meat (I think most supermarkets are on board with not selling it as most consumers don't want it). What'll be interesting/disturbing is how it's integrated into pre-prepared meals. That's where we'll feel it I suspect.