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This is correct. It's about retention more than monetization. With the app, you can not only send notifications, but you also have the app icon which reminds p

This is correct. It's about retention more than monetization. With the app, you can not only send notifications, but you also have the app icon which reminds people of the apps existence. Even little things like "badging" (when the app icon shows a dot or number to indicate new notifications) and even that can have a noticeable impact on retention (we're all programmed to click into anything with a notification). Also, they can recommend better content for you. I don't know if this is still possible and whether reddit does it, but an app used to be able to get the list of other apps installed on the phone, and many companies used that as an input into their recommendation systems (along with your location, etc).

mbesto 6y ago
> retention more than monetization FWIW, retention is monetization.
- spenczar5 6y ago
  I don’t see how. Can you explain how a company makes revenue purely by retaining users? I think they still need a monetization scheme separately. [edited for clarity]
  - tehbeard 6y ago
    In the context of Reddit, it's only a no-ad website if you're running adblock.
    - spenczar5 6y ago
      Sorry, I was unclear - I was trying to pose a hypothetical, not to say Reddit has no monetization.
  - mbesto 6y ago
    Retaining users means: - You can sell ads to them - You can continue to sell ads to them A proxy, if you will. For a for profit business, what other reason is there if not to drive some monetary value.
- Ozzie_osman 6y ago
  (Mentioned in another comment somewhere else in this thread). In the long-term, yes, but retention and monetization can diverge in the short-term. Classic example is showing fewer ads (better user experience, better retention... but much less monetization). Of course, in the long term, you'd still need to monetize that retention somehow anyway.
rabuse 6y ago
I believe Apple is going to be allowing push notifications from the web soon, and you can also "Add to Homescreen" a webpage, and it acts like an app, so we might finally be seeing a needed shift away from the app store.
- Joeri 6y ago
  Apple added push notifications to safari, but only on desktop. That tells you that they deliberately do not support this because they know a lot of apps could be pwa’s otherwise.
  - rabuse 6y ago
    Last I heard is that it is also coming to mobile.
    - dfabulich 6y ago
      Apple hasn’t announced anything like this. I’m pretty sure you’re confusing it with something else.
    - OkGoDoIt 6y ago
      Heard from where? Many people are clamoring for this, but other than wishful thinking I’ve never heard any compelling claims that Apple actually has it on their roadmap. I, for one, would love to see support for push on mobile web on iOS. But I’m not holding my breath.
naravara 6y ago
> With the app, you can not only send notifications, but you also have the app icon which reminds people of the apps existence. This is exactly why I don't want to install the app. All of these things seem designed to steal my attention and direct it towards stuff others want me to focus on rather than what I want to focus on. While having a mobile App store is probably a net good, in a lot of ways I wish Steve Jobs' initial vision of having the iPhone run WebApps and just improving the OS level support for improved hooks and functionality with actual websites was the way the world went. The apps would never have gotten as good and stuff like Uber might never have happened. But it also would have kept Facebook and Reddit and all these other sites focused on making you visit because you want to visit rather than because you're being skinner boxed and nudged into visiting by overbearing tracking technologies.
nonbirithm 6y ago
Also worth mentioning that there is no official API for Reddit's chat feature. You have no choice but to use the website or official app if you're on mobile and want or need to use their chat. Also the chat feature is extremely watered down and doesn't even have support for attaching images. But that doesn't matter if someone on Reddit chooses to contact you via chat and you want to respond. It compels you to use their platforms instead of a third-party client.
- plorkyeran 6y ago
  If you always use third-party clients or old.reddit.com you'll never even know that someone tried to contact you via chat, which makes it somewhat ineffective at getting people to stop using those.
  - mywittyname 6y ago
    I'm just now discovering that chat exists.
weego 6y ago
Pedantically, retention is the most effective KPI for predictable monetisation plans.
- Ozzie_osman 6y ago
  Very true and not actually pedantic. Retention is a pretty solid predictor of monetization, esp in the long-run. But in the short-run they can diverge. For example, decreasing ad units per page could drastically drop your monetization, but be great for longer-term retention.
ryandrake 6y ago
There's probably a suffering PM there whose bonus depends on juicing these horrible metrics rather than making their product wonderful. I myself dabbled in product management but got so turned off to it from the constant focus on addiction metrics. 7-day Retention! 30-day Retention! Daily Active Use! Daily Sessions Per DAU! Eyeball-share! Get their contacts! Spam them with E-mail! Spam them with notifications! Red badges on the app icon! Get them back in the app! I felt like a drug pusher, not someone building something great.

mbesto 6y ago

> retention more than monetization FWIW, retention is monetization.

spenczar5 6y ago
I don’t see how. Can you explain how a company makes revenue purely by retaining users? I think they still need a monetization scheme separately. [edited for clarity]
- tehbeard 6y ago
  In the context of Reddit, it's only a no-ad website if you're running adblock.
  - spenczar5 6y ago
    Sorry, I was unclear - I was trying to pose a hypothetical, not to say Reddit has no monetization.
- mbesto 6y ago
  Retaining users means: - You can sell ads to them - You can continue to sell ads to them A proxy, if you will. For a for profit business, what other reason is there if not to drive some monetary value.
Ozzie_osman 6y ago
(Mentioned in another comment somewhere else in this thread). In the long-term, yes, but retention and monetization can diverge in the short-term. Classic example is showing fewer ads (better user experience, better retention... but much less monetization). Of course, in the long term, you'd still need to monetize that retention somehow anyway.

rabuse 6y ago

I believe Apple is going to be allowing push notifications from the web soon, and you can also "Add to Homescreen" a webpage, and it acts like an app, so we might finally be seeing a needed shift away from the app store.

Joeri 6y ago
Apple added push notifications to safari, but only on desktop. That tells you that they deliberately do not support this because they know a lot of apps could be pwa’s otherwise.
- rabuse 6y ago
  Last I heard is that it is also coming to mobile.
  - dfabulich 6y ago
    Apple hasn’t announced anything like this. I’m pretty sure you’re confusing it with something else.
  - OkGoDoIt 6y ago
    Heard from where? Many people are clamoring for this, but other than wishful thinking I’ve never heard any compelling claims that Apple actually has it on their roadmap. I, for one, would love to see support for push on mobile web on iOS. But I’m not holding my breath.

naravara 6y ago

> With the app, you can not only send notifications, but you also have the app icon which reminds people of the apps existence. This is exactly why I don't want to install the app. All of these things seem designed to steal my attention and direct it towards stuff others want me to focus on rather than what I want to focus on. While having a mobile App store is probably a net good, in a lot of ways I wish Steve Jobs' initial vision of having the iPhone run WebApps and just improving the OS level support for improved hooks and functionality with actual websites was the way the world went. The apps would never have gotten as good and stuff like Uber might never have happened. But it also would have kept Facebook and Reddit and all these other sites focused on making you visit because you want to visit rather than because you're being skinner boxed and nudged into visiting by overbearing tracking technologies.

nonbirithm 6y ago

Also worth mentioning that there is no official API for Reddit's chat feature. You have no choice but to use the website or official app if you're on mobile and want or need to use their chat. Also the chat feature is extremely watered down and doesn't even have support for attaching images. But that doesn't matter if someone on Reddit chooses to contact you via chat and you want to respond. It compels you to use their platforms instead of a third-party client.

plorkyeran 6y ago
If you always use third-party clients or old.reddit.com you'll never even know that someone tried to contact you via chat, which makes it somewhat ineffective at getting people to stop using those.
- mywittyname 6y ago
  I'm just now discovering that chat exists.

weego 6y ago

Pedantically, retention is the most effective KPI for predictable monetisation plans.

Ozzie_osman 6y ago
Very true and not actually pedantic. Retention is a pretty solid predictor of monetization, esp in the long-run. But in the short-run they can diverge. For example, decreasing ad units per page could drastically drop your monetization, but be great for longer-term retention.

ryandrake 6y ago

There's probably a suffering PM there whose bonus depends on juicing these horrible metrics rather than making their product wonderful. I myself dabbled in product management but got so turned off to it from the constant focus on addiction metrics. 7-day Retention! 30-day Retention! Daily Active Use! Daily Sessions Per DAU! Eyeball-share! Get their contacts! Spam them with E-mail! Spam them with notifications! Red badges on the app icon! Get them back in the app! I felt like a drug pusher, not someone building something great.