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> Listen, I get it. They want some compensation from Netflix, Hulu and Disney+ eating up all their local bandwidth. I don't get it. Presumably the companies in

> Listen, I get it. They want some compensation from Netflix, Hulu and Disney+ eating up all their local bandwidth. I don't get it. Presumably the companies involved are already paying for the bandwidth they're using, as are their customers. How are they any different from other internet users sending around video?

ponker 6y ago
Why get paid once when you can get paid twice? This isn't about right, it's about might... let's see where this shakes out. The corporations have much more national political power but the cities can run a backhoe through your fiber uplink and then say "oops." I don't think the outcome is at all guaranteed to come out in favor of the streaming services.
- oarsinsync 6y ago
  > but the cities can run a backhoe through your fiber uplink and then say "oops." Would me demanding money from you and, if you don’t pay, punch myself and your neighbour in the face, make you more or less likely to pay me? Netflix etc don’t own the last mile fiber. Cities taking out their own utilities impacts them, their residents, and the ISPs operating them. Hulu and Disney are none of those entities.
  - ponker 6y ago
    If you think that malfeasance at the federal level is bad (and it is at a historically bad level right now), the local stuff is a thousand times worse. A local Indiana city will absolutely be able to completely fuck with Netflix access of their residents. And the residents may have little recourse. After all they could just legally implement a 100% sales tax on streaming services sold to residents of their jurisdiction.
    - oarsinsync 6y ago
      > A local Indiana city will absolutely be able to completely fuck with Netflix access of their residents ... they could just legally implement a 100% sales tax on streaming services sold to residents of their jurisdiction Population of local Indiana city as a % of Netflix global consumer base? What would Netflix's response likely be? > the residents may have little recourse What would you do if Netflix increased your subs, because your municipality told Netflix that they need to charge you 100% sales tax? What would you do if Netflix didn't even give you the option, and just cancelled your account for you, and gave you your local officials name, telephone, address and email?
      - rolph 6y ago
        >>What would you do if Netflix increased your subs, because your municipality told Netflix that they need to charge you 100% sales tax? What would you do if Netflix didn't even give you the option, and just cancelled your account for you, and gave you your local officials name, telephone, address and email?<< this would encourage me to find NETFLIX somewhere else
      - bagacrap 6y ago
        Where I live, all new taxes or tax hikes have to be approved by ballot measure. I believe it's true of the last place I lived as well (different state). So if you live somewhere that the government has the ability to unilaterally levy taxes and does not even pretend to act on the behalf of its constituency, I think the problem goes beyond Netflix.
atoav 6y ago
How are traditional TV Station different form Netflix and such? Arguably Netflix is structurally and goal wise closer to any traditional TV station (who would owe that taxes) than to any individual using the internet. The biggest point IMO is that they sell stuff film producers make to show ads — which is precisely the same thing TV stations did for decades.
- johncolanduoni 6y ago
  Uh, what Netflix have you been using?
  - atoav 6y ago
    So you mean the difference is that it is a website where you may choose the films? That is a difference (of course) — however from a film makers perspective they are still trying to sell my film to the audience. I am just sick of modern silicon valley companies doing the same thing as traditional companies while additionally deploying "one crazy trick" that let's them argue they are exempt to all existing regulations.
    - SpaceRaccoon 6y ago
      While I, for one, am sick of regulations that hurt everyone except the budgets of incompetent bureaucrats or incumbent monopolies.
    - johncolanduoni 6y ago
      I mean the "ads" part. Netflix doesn't have ads...
      - atoav 6y ago
        Ever talked to filmmakers who made stuff for/with netflix? Product placement is a real thing. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/16/business/media/netflix-commercials.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/16/business/media/netflix-co...
powersnail 6y ago
I think, the "I get it" was just saying that it was understandable that when money flew away to other pockets, and it was done in a way that used a significant amount of infrastructure they own, they wanted to get paid. It wasn't saying that the reasoning is actually sound. It's just, can be comprehended.
- Terretta 6y ago
  They may "own" it, but their customers rent it, for a cost. It's no longer "their" bandwidth, it's the bandwidth their customers gave them money for, because those customers wanted Netflix. Also, an interesting twist to ponder: arguably the data packets "belong" to Netflix and the customer. Arguably, it's the empty "capacity" that's being owned and rented by the Internet carrier and its customer, who can then have pricing discussions around how much capacity. Welcome to being an ISP.
panpanna 6y ago
Because Comsat, ATT and other have already strongarmed these companies into paying them for bandwidth. Why shouldn't cities get a piece of that too?

ponker 6y ago

Why get paid once when you can get paid twice? This isn't about right, it's about might... let's see where this shakes out. The corporations have much more national political power but the cities can run a backhoe through your fiber uplink and then say "oops." I don't think the outcome is at all guaranteed to come out in favor of the streaming services.

oarsinsync 6y ago
> but the cities can run a backhoe through your fiber uplink and then say "oops." Would me demanding money from you and, if you don’t pay, punch myself and your neighbour in the face, make you more or less likely to pay me? Netflix etc don’t own the last mile fiber. Cities taking out their own utilities impacts them, their residents, and the ISPs operating them. Hulu and Disney are none of those entities.
- ponker 6y ago
  If you think that malfeasance at the federal level is bad (and it is at a historically bad level right now), the local stuff is a thousand times worse. A local Indiana city will absolutely be able to completely fuck with Netflix access of their residents. And the residents may have little recourse. After all they could just legally implement a 100% sales tax on streaming services sold to residents of their jurisdiction.
  - oarsinsync 6y ago
    > A local Indiana city will absolutely be able to completely fuck with Netflix access of their residents ... they could just legally implement a 100% sales tax on streaming services sold to residents of their jurisdiction Population of local Indiana city as a % of Netflix global consumer base? What would Netflix's response likely be? > the residents may have little recourse What would you do if Netflix increased your subs, because your municipality told Netflix that they need to charge you 100% sales tax? What would you do if Netflix didn't even give you the option, and just cancelled your account for you, and gave you your local officials name, telephone, address and email?
    - rolph 6y ago
      >>What would you do if Netflix increased your subs, because your municipality told Netflix that they need to charge you 100% sales tax? What would you do if Netflix didn't even give you the option, and just cancelled your account for you, and gave you your local officials name, telephone, address and email?<< this would encourage me to find NETFLIX somewhere else
    - bagacrap 6y ago
      Where I live, all new taxes or tax hikes have to be approved by ballot measure. I believe it's true of the last place I lived as well (different state). So if you live somewhere that the government has the ability to unilaterally levy taxes and does not even pretend to act on the behalf of its constituency, I think the problem goes beyond Netflix.

atoav 6y ago

How are traditional TV Station different form Netflix and such? Arguably Netflix is structurally and goal wise closer to any traditional TV station (who would owe that taxes) than to any individual using the internet. The biggest point IMO is that they sell stuff film producers make to show ads — which is precisely the same thing TV stations did for decades.

johncolanduoni 6y ago
Uh, what Netflix have you been using?
- atoav 6y ago
  So you mean the difference is that it is a website where you may choose the films? That is a difference (of course) — however from a film makers perspective they are still trying to sell my film to the audience. I am just sick of modern silicon valley companies doing the same thing as traditional companies while additionally deploying "one crazy trick" that let's them argue they are exempt to all existing regulations.
  - SpaceRaccoon 6y ago
    While I, for one, am sick of regulations that hurt everyone except the budgets of incompetent bureaucrats or incumbent monopolies.
  - johncolanduoni 6y ago
    I mean the "ads" part. Netflix doesn't have ads...
    - atoav 6y ago
      Ever talked to filmmakers who made stuff for/with netflix? Product placement is a real thing. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/16/business/media/netflix-commercials.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/16/business/media/netflix-co...

powersnail 6y ago

I think, the "I get it" was just saying that it was understandable that when money flew away to other pockets, and it was done in a way that used a significant amount of infrastructure they own, they wanted to get paid. It wasn't saying that the reasoning is actually sound. It's just, can be comprehended.

Terretta 6y ago
They may "own" it, but their customers rent it, for a cost. It's no longer "their" bandwidth, it's the bandwidth their customers gave them money for, because those customers wanted Netflix. Also, an interesting twist to ponder: arguably the data packets "belong" to Netflix and the customer. Arguably, it's the empty "capacity" that's being owned and rented by the Internet carrier and its customer, who can then have pricing discussions around how much capacity. Welcome to being an ISP.

panpanna 6y ago

Because Comsat, ATT and other have already strongarmed these companies into paying them for bandwidth. Why shouldn't cities get a piece of that too?