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After having used Bear, Notable, and Atom + plugins, I’m realizing I don’t really want an app to manage my notes. I just want the notes, plus a tool to travers

After having used Bear, Notable, and Atom + plugins, I’m realizing I don’t really want an app to manage my notes. I just want the notes, plus a tool to traverse them that’s got a bit more beef to it than Finder.app. I’d like to use a more powerful app like the one promoted here, but I feel desperately uncomfortable tying my notes [in] to a piece of proprietary software. I feel like that was a mistake I made already, and don’t want to repeat. It’s almost like Obsidian et al are highly featureful filesystem browsers, but where the only files one can have are markdown files. What about if I want to style a real PDF in Asciidoc? It’s really common for a note to evolve into a document. An idea becomes a lesson plan for a class, which morphs into a handout with tables, admonitions etc. What about if I want to represent some idea with a quick spreadsheet? Or a sketchup? It would be fantastic if those were somehow all represented as first class documents in the filesystem, as markdown is inside the current wave of proprietary markdown editors.

xzel 6y ago
boostnote.io might be a good tool for you. Its basically a markdown renderer + code coloring with some extra search and other features. The first version is open source and I believe the second version also will be (but not positive). you can also store your folder of notes in a dropbox folder and get decent syncing out of the box. I've been using it for two years now and don't have any complaints. I will have to admit I haven't moved over to their second version yet so I might be missing something.
- raytracer 6y ago
  Obsidian is basically a "markdown renderer + code coloring with some extra search and other features" too. Notes in Obsidian are just regular markdown files that sit in a directory on your hard-drive. The notes can be version controlled with Git, synced with Dropbox, etc.
  - xzel 6y ago
    Yes I thought one of the things he didn’t like about Obsidian was it is closed source / proprietary. I do think they overlap pretty heavily. I’m personally going to give Obsidian a try tomorrow and see how it compares.
  - bosie 6y ago
    They aren't regular markdown files, they wont' be supportd any time soon by other markdown editors (i.e. there is currently no compatible ios markdown editor for it). They are regular text files though.
hojjat12000 6y ago
I use Zettlr. It's also a Markdown manager. However you can define a folder as a project. Which helps to keep related notes orderly. Also you can export the whole project or one note as a pdf (using pandoc) or docx, odt, html... You can attach files to your note too. That being said I really enjoyed the idea of Trilium. Especially the fact that you can write your own scripts.You may be able to add scripts and make spreadsheet or SketchUp files first class documents.
rsa25519 6y ago
Honestly, I recommend paper. I know, I know, no full-text search, no backup, etc. But files are really easy to misplace, accidently delete, or lose due to a hardware/software failure. They're just so small. I've found that if I write something down on paper, I'll physically remember where it is. It's really hard to get past the permanent aspect of pen and paper, but once you do, and you're willing to write down imperfect thoughts with zero organization, it's wonderful.
- jmnicolas 6y ago
  > It's really hard to get past the permanent aspect of pen and paper As someone that grew up without any electronics except a TV, how the world has changed ... now if you could pretty please get of my lawn :)
- Maha-pudma 6y ago
  I like to take notes on paper however my notes are always messy. I'm not able to take notes on anything without having to go back and reorganise them, make sense of them, and add to them. Paper and pen (pencil in my case) are limited in this respect. I'd love to be able to take notes perfectly the first time but find I'll take notes and rewrite them in text (currently zim-wiki) which for me reinforces them in my mind. I can then add/change them when needed. My notes evolve over time, which means paper notes would have to be rewritten continuously with the same information with additions/deletions/expansions/etc. This is much easier electronically, especially when you version your notes (I do this with fossil in zim-wiki). I find also pen and paper to be limited for programming notes.
  - mkbkn 6y ago
    Explore "Zettlekasten". There's a great book on the topic - "How To Take Smart Notes"
Buxel 6y ago
I recently discovered dendron (https://www.dendron.so/ https://www.dendron.so/) to scratch exactly the same itch you have. It is a set of vscode plugins, which help me manage a workspace of markdown notes. Fair warning: it can be a little overwhelming to get started. At least for me it was because I wanted to do everything the "right" way. Changing stuff and refactoring is easy, so now i just write things down and worry about structure as it grows. So far, i really like it and the dev is very responsive on discord to fix issues i had with windows. He even offers personal 30 minute sessions with him where he tries to learn more about the way you'd like to use it.
Maha-pudma 6y ago
I use zim-wiki for my notes. Open-source and stores notes in text organised by folders. I like markdown but actually prefer the simple wiki syntax it uses. If they need to create a PDF I use pandoc and if I need to move a table to a spreadsheet I just copy the text and use the text to columns from delimiter feature. Not sure if this help you or not.
- jabirali 6y ago
  Zim’s main drawback in these days is that it doesn’t have its own mobile app, and since it’s not based on MarkDown, you can’t use any existing MarkDown mobile apps with it.
  - Maha-pudma 6y ago
    That's true, I think they started looking at creating one but it never got off the ground. From my personal perspective I don't, and can't (I've tried), take decent notes on mobile. On the move I just use a jotter it's quicker and move flexible.
sadok 6y ago
Have you tried Roam Research? https://roamresearch.com/ https://roamresearch.com/
- input_sh 6y ago
  The comment you're replying to says: > but I feel desperately uncomfortable tying my notes to a piece of proprietary software.
read_if_gay_ 6y ago
> but I feel desperately uncomfortable tying my notes to a piece of proprietary software Obsidian is proprietary, but Markdown isn’t. And there will always be Markdown personal wikis. I guarantee it. > What about if I want to style a real PDF in Asciidoc? Pandoc can export MD to PDF, HTML, .doc, anything. And you can style with CSS. But once you add spreadsheets and sketches into the mix, there’s basically no way around proprietary software.
- smabie 6y ago
  What about org-mode?
  - randomchars 6y ago
    I had a look at it a few months ago, and my impression is that while it's very powerful, it's not for the average user. Heck, I work as a developer, spend a third of my day in the terminal, and I still wouldn't use it.
  - dicytea 6y ago
    I recently moved from Workflowy to org-mode after being recommended by someone here and it has been a fantastic experience. Henrik's Doom Emacs distribution has really made the transition easy with its amazing out-of-the-box usability. There is one minor feature from Workflowy that I miss though, which is is the ability to "zoom" into a headline. You can narrow subtrees, but its level won't be adjusted. I tried to use some horizontal scroll hackery but couldn't get it to play well when you're switching buffers. I'm not sure how to save those narrowed buffers across sessions either. But in any case I definitely will stay with org-mode for quite a long time, it truly is a powerful piece of software.
  - tonyarkles 6y ago
    Org-mode is fantastic. Org files on Dropbox has been my standard note keeping and task management tool for close to a decade. But... it definitely has a learning curve as you simultaneously adapt your workflow to org and customize org to match your own desired workflow. For me, it is undoubtedly the best task and knowledge management tool I’ve ever used. But, I accepted a long time ago that the Emacs requirement is going to be a deal breaker for a lot of people.
travbrack 6y ago
I'm using VS code and the markdown preview plugin, with a private repo on github. Works pretty good and would support other filetypes besides MD.
- cstuder 6y ago
  I am doing the same thing, additionally I have a cron job running which auto-commits every 5 minutes. For mobile viewing I use the app GitJournal. https://gitjournal.io/ https://gitjournal.io/
  - MiroF 6y ago
    > GitJournal Thanks for this --a fellow git + markdown + cron note-taker
    - vhanda 6y ago
      Hi. I'm the author, please feel free to contact me if you have any issues and/or feature requests.
- phre4k 6y ago
  There's a collection of additional VScode plugins called foam you might be interested in. https://foambubble.github.io/foam/ https://foambubble.github.io/foam/
sasaf5 6y ago
I do something like that using org mode in termux. It has really improved my note taking and personal information management. I do my workout logs, nutrition logs, language study, work task management, agenda, all in the same environment, and the format is open. Versioning and syncing is done with git.
- smabie 6y ago
  org-mode is without a doubt the most comprehensive and powerful note taking software that exists today. It's so good that even non-emacs users should give it a go.
phre4k 6y ago
Foam is the open source alternative to Obsidian. https://foambubble.github.io/foam/ https://foambubble.github.io/foam/
yt-sdb 6y ago
If you don’t care about mobile, Anno [1] is nice. It’s very simple; just a web-based UI for Markdown files. There’s an okay-ish PDF feature as well. [1] https://github.com/gwgundersen/anno https://github.com/gwgundersen/anno
findjashua 6y ago
there are open source options for creating markdown wikis, that support (almost?) all platforms, and filesystem-storage as well. I'm a happy user of Boostnote.
epda 6y ago
I'm using markdown files in a git worktree stored on iCloud. This provides fast syncing between my Apple devices and the ability to push everything to a git remote for peace of mind. On iOS I use iA Writer and on the mac I use vim (& wiki.vim) and command line tools like ripgrep. The only annoyance at the moment is that iA Writer doesn't support wiki links.
- 681165FE 6y ago
  My setup is very similar, but I use 1Writer on iOS, which does support wiki-links.
bristolppp1980 6y ago
I had a similar trajectory and settled on Bookmark OS. The Notes are not as feature rich as Obsidian but it's almost simpler is better for me https://bookmarkos.com https://bookmarkos.com

xzel 6y ago

boostnote.io might be a good tool for you. Its basically a markdown renderer + code coloring with some extra search and other features. The first version is open source and I believe the second version also will be (but not positive). you can also store your folder of notes in a dropbox folder and get decent syncing out of the box. I've been using it for two years now and don't have any complaints. I will have to admit I haven't moved over to their second version yet so I might be missing something.

raytracer 6y ago
Obsidian is basically a "markdown renderer + code coloring with some extra search and other features" too. Notes in Obsidian are just regular markdown files that sit in a directory on your hard-drive. The notes can be version controlled with Git, synced with Dropbox, etc.
- xzel 6y ago
  Yes I thought one of the things he didn’t like about Obsidian was it is closed source / proprietary. I do think they overlap pretty heavily. I’m personally going to give Obsidian a try tomorrow and see how it compares.
- bosie 6y ago
  They aren't regular markdown files, they wont' be supportd any time soon by other markdown editors (i.e. there is currently no compatible ios markdown editor for it). They are regular text files though.

hojjat12000 6y ago

I use Zettlr. It's also a Markdown manager. However you can define a folder as a project. Which helps to keep related notes orderly. Also you can export the whole project or one note as a pdf (using pandoc) or docx, odt, html... You can attach files to your note too. That being said I really enjoyed the idea of Trilium. Especially the fact that you can write your own scripts.You may be able to add scripts and make spreadsheet or SketchUp files first class documents.

rsa25519 6y ago

Honestly, I recommend paper. I know, I know, no full-text search, no backup, etc. But files are really easy to misplace, accidently delete, or lose due to a hardware/software failure. They're just so small. I've found that if I write something down on paper, I'll physically remember where it is. It's really hard to get past the permanent aspect of pen and paper, but once you do, and you're willing to write down imperfect thoughts with zero organization, it's wonderful.

jmnicolas 6y ago
> It's really hard to get past the permanent aspect of pen and paper As someone that grew up without any electronics except a TV, how the world has changed ... now if you could pretty please get of my lawn :)
Maha-pudma 6y ago
I like to take notes on paper however my notes are always messy. I'm not able to take notes on anything without having to go back and reorganise them, make sense of them, and add to them. Paper and pen (pencil in my case) are limited in this respect. I'd love to be able to take notes perfectly the first time but find I'll take notes and rewrite them in text (currently zim-wiki) which for me reinforces them in my mind. I can then add/change them when needed. My notes evolve over time, which means paper notes would have to be rewritten continuously with the same information with additions/deletions/expansions/etc. This is much easier electronically, especially when you version your notes (I do this with fossil in zim-wiki). I find also pen and paper to be limited for programming notes.
- mkbkn 6y ago
  Explore "Zettlekasten". There's a great book on the topic - "How To Take Smart Notes"

Buxel 6y ago

I recently discovered dendron (https://www.dendron.so/ https://www.dendron.so/) to scratch exactly the same itch you have. It is a set of vscode plugins, which help me manage a workspace of markdown notes. Fair warning: it can be a little overwhelming to get started. At least for me it was because I wanted to do everything the "right" way. Changing stuff and refactoring is easy, so now i just write things down and worry about structure as it grows. So far, i really like it and the dev is very responsive on discord to fix issues i had with windows. He even offers personal 30 minute sessions with him where he tries to learn more about the way you'd like to use it.

Maha-pudma 6y ago

I use zim-wiki for my notes. Open-source and stores notes in text organised by folders. I like markdown but actually prefer the simple wiki syntax it uses. If they need to create a PDF I use pandoc and if I need to move a table to a spreadsheet I just copy the text and use the text to columns from delimiter feature. Not sure if this help you or not.

jabirali 6y ago
Zim’s main drawback in these days is that it doesn’t have its own mobile app, and since it’s not based on MarkDown, you can’t use any existing MarkDown mobile apps with it.
- Maha-pudma 6y ago
  That's true, I think they started looking at creating one but it never got off the ground. From my personal perspective I don't, and can't (I've tried), take decent notes on mobile. On the move I just use a jotter it's quicker and move flexible.

sadok 6y ago

Have you tried Roam Research? https://roamresearch.com/ https://roamresearch.com/

input_sh 6y ago
The comment you're replying to says: > but I feel desperately uncomfortable tying my notes to a piece of proprietary software.

read_if_gay_ 6y ago

> but I feel desperately uncomfortable tying my notes to a piece of proprietary software Obsidian is proprietary, but Markdown isn’t. And there will always be Markdown personal wikis. I guarantee it. > What about if I want to style a real PDF in Asciidoc? Pandoc can export MD to PDF, HTML, .doc, anything. And you can style with CSS. But once you add spreadsheets and sketches into the mix, there’s basically no way around proprietary software.

smabie 6y ago
What about org-mode?
- randomchars 6y ago
  I had a look at it a few months ago, and my impression is that while it's very powerful, it's not for the average user. Heck, I work as a developer, spend a third of my day in the terminal, and I still wouldn't use it.
- dicytea 6y ago
  I recently moved from Workflowy to org-mode after being recommended by someone here and it has been a fantastic experience. Henrik's Doom Emacs distribution has really made the transition easy with its amazing out-of-the-box usability. There is one minor feature from Workflowy that I miss though, which is is the ability to "zoom" into a headline. You can narrow subtrees, but its level won't be adjusted. I tried to use some horizontal scroll hackery but couldn't get it to play well when you're switching buffers. I'm not sure how to save those narrowed buffers across sessions either. But in any case I definitely will stay with org-mode for quite a long time, it truly is a powerful piece of software.
- tonyarkles 6y ago
  Org-mode is fantastic. Org files on Dropbox has been my standard note keeping and task management tool for close to a decade. But... it definitely has a learning curve as you simultaneously adapt your workflow to org and customize org to match your own desired workflow. For me, it is undoubtedly the best task and knowledge management tool I’ve ever used. But, I accepted a long time ago that the Emacs requirement is going to be a deal breaker for a lot of people.

travbrack 6y ago

I'm using VS code and the markdown preview plugin, with a private repo on github. Works pretty good and would support other filetypes besides MD.

cstuder 6y ago
I am doing the same thing, additionally I have a cron job running which auto-commits every 5 minutes. For mobile viewing I use the app GitJournal. https://gitjournal.io/ https://gitjournal.io/
- MiroF 6y ago
  > GitJournal Thanks for this --a fellow git + markdown + cron note-taker
  - vhanda 6y ago
    Hi. I'm the author, please feel free to contact me if you have any issues and/or feature requests.
phre4k 6y ago
There's a collection of additional VScode plugins called foam you might be interested in. https://foambubble.github.io/foam/ https://foambubble.github.io/foam/

sasaf5 6y ago

I do something like that using org mode in termux. It has really improved my note taking and personal information management. I do my workout logs, nutrition logs, language study, work task management, agenda, all in the same environment, and the format is open. Versioning and syncing is done with git.

smabie 6y ago
org-mode is without a doubt the most comprehensive and powerful note taking software that exists today. It's so good that even non-emacs users should give it a go.

phre4k 6y ago

Foam is the open source alternative to Obsidian. https://foambubble.github.io/foam/ https://foambubble.github.io/foam/

yt-sdb 6y ago

If you don’t care about mobile, Anno [1] is nice. It’s very simple; just a web-based UI for Markdown files. There’s an okay-ish PDF feature as well. [1] https://github.com/gwgundersen/anno https://github.com/gwgundersen/anno

findjashua 6y ago

there are open source options for creating markdown wikis, that support (almost?) all platforms, and filesystem-storage as well. I'm a happy user of Boostnote.

epda 6y ago

I'm using markdown files in a git worktree stored on iCloud. This provides fast syncing between my Apple devices and the ability to push everything to a git remote for peace of mind. On iOS I use iA Writer and on the mac I use vim (& wiki.vim) and command line tools like ripgrep. The only annoyance at the moment is that iA Writer doesn't support wiki links.

681165FE 6y ago
My setup is very similar, but I use 1Writer on iOS, which does support wiki-links.

bristolppp1980 6y ago

I had a similar trajectory and settled on Bookmark OS. The Notes are not as feature rich as Obsidian but it's almost simpler is better for me https://bookmarkos.com https://bookmarkos.com