4 ms·

Shakespeare’s Son Died at 11. A Novel Asks How It Shaped His Art

22 points by benbreen 6y ago

wryoak 6y ago
AM or PM?
therealdrag0 6y ago
Interesting. Coincidentally, a recent episode of EconTalk [0] taught me that the plague had a big impact on Shakespeare and his work. [0] https://www.econtalk.org/ben-cohen-on-the-hot-hand/ https://www.econtalk.org/ben-cohen-on-the-hot-hand/
- emmelaich 6y ago
  Thanks! For those who'd rather read than listen, there's a transcript lower right.
- claudeganon 6y ago
  Newton also made many of his breakthroughs after retreating to the countryside to avoid a plague in London as well: https://www.biography.com/news/isaac-newton-quarantine-plague-discoveries https://www.biography.com/news/isaac-newton-quarantine-plagu...
hprotagonist 6y ago
and in 1991, Gaiman won to date the only World Fantasy Award given to a graphic novel for exploring the same question: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sandman:_Dream_Country#%22A_Midsummer_Night's_Dream%22 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sandman:_Dream_Country#%22...
chrisweekly 6y ago
Edit: My original comment > how could anything be known about Shakespeare's son given the Bard's identity is an open question? resulted in downvotes and being compared to a flat-earther, plus one helpful answer to my question which remedied my ignorance. I'd love to freeze or delete my comment but all I can do is edit it. Thanks in advance for ignoring it and moving on.
- dbtc 6y ago
  The shape of the earth is an open question too. Sorry. I have no idea what or who shakespeare was or how that identity has or hasn’t been confirmed. Still, just sayin’.
- spaced-out 6y ago
  His identity is not an open question. We know exactly where and when William Shakespeare of Stratford was born and baptized (in those days they recorded baptism dates, not births). We know who his parents were, who his wives and kids were, the names of his 8 siblings, and the business ventures of his family...to name a few things. We also know when he got started in the London theater scene, and how his career and skill developed (we've found early poetry of his which was not very good, for example). We even know that he became very wealthy and famous (he was famous even during his life) due to the success of his plays, and acquired quite a bit of real estate before he died.
  - hnaa 6y ago
    There are also large, structural similarities across the plays and poems that suggest a single authorship; that 'not very good' poetry has interests and stylistic tics in common with the later, more universally revered work. It's also relatively recently (1800s on) that the plays gained that the reputation that they did. The argument that William Shakespeare couldn't have written the plays is one that is extremely recent, historically-speaking, and it relies on snobbish negatives ('A son of a glove maker who had an excellent education grounded in the classics and spent his life in the theater couldn't have written the plays') rather than any affirmative evidence against. We also have text of contemporaries that are generally trustworthy sources describing his work (and offering criticisms). It's not the exciting answer, but it probably was William Shakespeare that wrote the works in question.
- knolax 6y ago
  The man has living relatives. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_Shakespeare https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_Shakespeare
- ScottBurson 6y ago
twoodfin 6y ago
Odd that this review doesn’t mention that Hamnet’s early death and its impact on the Bard are dissected in the “Scylla and Charybdis” episode of Joyce’s Ulysses, as well as echoing against the cornerstone of the protagonist, Bloom.
yewenjie 6y ago
Neil Gaiman's The Sandman has three episodes dedicated to Shakespeare (and one features his son Hamnet). This is a good analysis of how isolation and genius in art relates, in the context of Shakespeare in The Sandman. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhA0GVi_N4E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhA0GVi_N4E

22 points by benbreen 6y ago

AM or PM?

Interesting. Coincidentally, a recent episode of EconTalk [0] taught me that the plague had a big impact on Shakespeare and his work. [0] https://www.econtalk.org/ben-cohen-on-the-hot-hand/ https://www.econtalk.org/ben-cohen-on-the-hot-hand/

emmelaich 6y ago
Thanks! For those who'd rather read than listen, there's a transcript lower right.
claudeganon 6y ago
Newton also made many of his breakthroughs after retreating to the countryside to avoid a plague in London as well: https://www.biography.com/news/isaac-newton-quarantine-plague-discoveries https://www.biography.com/news/isaac-newton-quarantine-plagu...

hprotagonist 6y ago

and in 1991, Gaiman won to date the only World Fantasy Award given to a graphic novel for exploring the same question: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sandman:_Dream_Country#%22A_Midsummer_Night's_Dream%22 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sandman:_Dream_Country#%22...

chrisweekly 6y ago

Edit: My original comment > how could anything be known about Shakespeare's son given the Bard's identity is an open question? resulted in downvotes and being compared to a flat-earther, plus one helpful answer to my question which remedied my ignorance. I'd love to freeze or delete my comment but all I can do is edit it. Thanks in advance for ignoring it and moving on.

dbtc 6y ago
The shape of the earth is an open question too. Sorry. I have no idea what or who shakespeare was or how that identity has or hasn’t been confirmed. Still, just sayin’.
spaced-out 6y ago
His identity is not an open question. We know exactly where and when William Shakespeare of Stratford was born and baptized (in those days they recorded baptism dates, not births). We know who his parents were, who his wives and kids were, the names of his 8 siblings, and the business ventures of his family...to name a few things. We also know when he got started in the London theater scene, and how his career and skill developed (we've found early poetry of his which was not very good, for example). We even know that he became very wealthy and famous (he was famous even during his life) due to the success of his plays, and acquired quite a bit of real estate before he died.
- hnaa 6y ago
  There are also large, structural similarities across the plays and poems that suggest a single authorship; that 'not very good' poetry has interests and stylistic tics in common with the later, more universally revered work. It's also relatively recently (1800s on) that the plays gained that the reputation that they did. The argument that William Shakespeare couldn't have written the plays is one that is extremely recent, historically-speaking, and it relies on snobbish negatives ('A son of a glove maker who had an excellent education grounded in the classics and spent his life in the theater couldn't have written the plays') rather than any affirmative evidence against. We also have text of contemporaries that are generally trustworthy sources describing his work (and offering criticisms). It's not the exciting answer, but it probably was William Shakespeare that wrote the works in question.
knolax 6y ago
The man has living relatives. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_Shakespeare https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_Shakespeare
ScottBurson 6y ago

twoodfin 6y ago

Odd that this review doesn’t mention that Hamnet’s early death and its impact on the Bard are dissected in the “Scylla and Charybdis” episode of Joyce’s Ulysses, as well as echoing against the cornerstone of the protagonist, Bloom.

yewenjie 6y ago

Neil Gaiman's The Sandman has three episodes dedicated to Shakespeare (and one features his son Hamnet). This is a good analysis of how isolation and genius in art relates, in the context of Shakespeare in The Sandman. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhA0GVi_N4E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhA0GVi_N4E