4 ms·

It is silly. Your example isn't even about a wealth tax, it's about an inheritance tax. Sweden has a 30% Capital Gains tax (likely the vehicle for any form of f

It is silly. Your example isn't even about a wealth tax, it's about an inheritance tax. Sweden has a 30% Capital Gains tax (likely the vehicle for any form of future wealth tax) and seems to be doing much better than the US.

defnotashton2 6y ago
Not in terms of class mobility. Yes the floor is higher but try accumulating wealth in Sweden.
- amiga_500 6y ago
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Social_Mobility_Index https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Social_Mobility_Index Sweden: 4th Usa: 27th
- kybernetikos 6y ago
  Normally class mobility is not thought of as equivalent to accumulating wealth. In some ways they're almost opposites. Sweden typically ranks much higher on class mobility measures than the USA.
  - twblalock 6y ago
    > Normally class mobility is not thought of as equivalent to accumulating wealth. In some ways they're almost opposites. Accumulating wealth is the only way poor people can stop being poor. Of course it's related to class mobility.
    - kybernetikos 6y ago
      Sure, they're related, but they are not equivalent and even oppose each other in some ways. A society that emphasises wealth accumulation above all else will have the privileged accumulate so much wealth it'll be nearly impossible for the poor to catch up, no matter how talented or hardworking. One way of measuring class mobility is looking at your liklihood of finishing your life in a higher 'class' (variously definied) than you started it, or than your parents had. With that kind of measure, Sweden does extremely well. Certainly much better than countries like the USA, which arguably do emphasise making the accumulation of wealth (when you already have a lot of it) easier.
settrans 6y ago
Is that right? Sweden -- along with virtually all European countries other than Switzerland, Norway and Luxembourg -- have much poorer middle classes than most US states. https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/if-sweden-left-the-eu-and-joined-the-us-it-would-be-the-poorest-u-s-state-below-even-mississippi/ https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/if-sweden-left-the-eu-and-joi... https://mises.org/wire/if-sweden-and-germany-became-us-states-they-would-be-among-poorest-states https://mises.org/wire/if-sweden-and-germany-became-us-state...
- D_Alex 6y ago
  Not sure what you mean by much poorer... in any case here is a list of European countries which have a higher median wealth per adult than the US, roughly in order of wealth per adult: Switzerland, Iceland, Luxmbourg, Belgium, Ireland, France, UK, Spain, Austria, Italy, Malta, Norway. If you go by mean wealth on the other hand, only Switzerland is higher than the US. But that is not a measure of middle class wealth. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_wealth_per_adult https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_wealth_pe...
  - jandrewrogers 6y ago
    A relevant factor is that the US has both a much higher income and a vastly lower savings rate than in Europe. Also, much of the wealth in Europe comes from hereditary property, which is not really a thing in the US. As a baseline, median Americans have much higher discretionary income than in Europe, so it is only savings habits that prevent many of them from accumulating wealth. Americans with savings rates that are comparable to Europeans end up accumulating tremendous wealth over their careers, even in the middle class. This is offset by the majority that spend every penny. That Americans don’t save their prodigious income is an unfortunate artifact of having multiple generations of nearly unbroken prosperity.

defnotashton2 6y ago

Not in terms of class mobility. Yes the floor is higher but try accumulating wealth in Sweden.

amiga_500 6y ago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Social_Mobility_Index https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Social_Mobility_Index Sweden: 4th Usa: 27th
kybernetikos 6y ago
Normally class mobility is not thought of as equivalent to accumulating wealth. In some ways they're almost opposites. Sweden typically ranks much higher on class mobility measures than the USA.
- twblalock 6y ago
  > Normally class mobility is not thought of as equivalent to accumulating wealth. In some ways they're almost opposites. Accumulating wealth is the only way poor people can stop being poor. Of course it's related to class mobility.
  - kybernetikos 6y ago
    Sure, they're related, but they are not equivalent and even oppose each other in some ways. A society that emphasises wealth accumulation above all else will have the privileged accumulate so much wealth it'll be nearly impossible for the poor to catch up, no matter how talented or hardworking. One way of measuring class mobility is looking at your liklihood of finishing your life in a higher 'class' (variously definied) than you started it, or than your parents had. With that kind of measure, Sweden does extremely well. Certainly much better than countries like the USA, which arguably do emphasise making the accumulation of wealth (when you already have a lot of it) easier.

settrans 6y ago

Is that right? Sweden -- along with virtually all European countries other than Switzerland, Norway and Luxembourg -- have much poorer middle classes than most US states. https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/if-sweden-left-the-eu-and-joined-the-us-it-would-be-the-poorest-u-s-state-below-even-mississippi/ https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/if-sweden-left-the-eu-and-joi... https://mises.org/wire/if-sweden-and-germany-became-us-states-they-would-be-among-poorest-states https://mises.org/wire/if-sweden-and-germany-became-us-state...

D_Alex 6y ago
Not sure what you mean by much poorer... in any case here is a list of European countries which have a higher median wealth per adult than the US, roughly in order of wealth per adult: Switzerland, Iceland, Luxmbourg, Belgium, Ireland, France, UK, Spain, Austria, Italy, Malta, Norway. If you go by mean wealth on the other hand, only Switzerland is higher than the US. But that is not a measure of middle class wealth. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_wealth_per_adult https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_wealth_pe...
- jandrewrogers 6y ago
  A relevant factor is that the US has both a much higher income and a vastly lower savings rate than in Europe. Also, much of the wealth in Europe comes from hereditary property, which is not really a thing in the US. As a baseline, median Americans have much higher discretionary income than in Europe, so it is only savings habits that prevent many of them from accumulating wealth. Americans with savings rates that are comparable to Europeans end up accumulating tremendous wealth over their careers, even in the middle class. This is offset by the majority that spend every penny. That Americans don’t save their prodigious income is an unfortunate artifact of having multiple generations of nearly unbroken prosperity.