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> Giving people a single way to log into Oculus — using their Facebook account and password — will make it easier to find, connect, and play with friends in VR.

> Giving people a single way to log into Oculus — using their Facebook account and password — will make it easier to find, connect, and play with friends in VR. Ugh. I guess Facebook is making a play to become the Steam/XBox Live of VR. Why can't we just have gaming peripherals anymore without some kind of platform tie-in?

phone8675309 6y ago
Because the companies make a large amount of money on the platform. Look at Apple/Google/MS/Sony/Nintendo charging for access to the platform - either explicitly for online play, by taking a cut of sales on the platform, or in the case of the console makers - both. As someone who prefers to play games alone, it's frustrating. The first five minutes after installing Steam is a constantly stream of "stfu and stop shoving game release/update/sale announcements in my face", "gtfo with the popup messages that a friend is playing a game", "wtf? why are you auto-logging me into the messenger", "no, I don't consent to you building a hardware inventory of my machine and using it for internal stats", and "jfc, please just leave me alone and let me play some games". It's almost enough to make me buy a shack in Montana and support the post office.
- _trampeltier 6y ago
  For me it's the reason, why I never started gaming again. I just wanna buy a game and play. I don't wanna have any spyware on my PC.
  - phone8675309 6y ago
    GOG is good if the game you want to play is on there - if you don't install GOG Galaxy. You can download an executable installer from their website that is DRM free, can be installed offline, and you can keep a copy of forever.
    - fartcannon 6y ago
      GOG's weird position on Linux users quacks like a duck in my opinion. The quotes have a real Tim Sweeney vibe to them.
  - reaperducer 6y ago
    It's also an argument for retro games. Plug in a cartridge and go from power on to playing the game in a matter of seconds, with no privacy invasion.
  - crtasm 6y ago
    Subscribe to Humble Choice for a month and download all the drm-free games from their "Trove"!
    - MayeulC 6y ago
      Some time ago I worked on a tool [1] to do just that, unsure if it would still work. I also got lost between feature development and fixes in my git branches at the time, and never had time to finish this. Looks like upstream [2] became active again and merged some of my improvements, unsure if it works with the trove. I was also just made aware of this new project, dedicated to that issue [3]. I'd advise someone to start looking at the last one. I don't usually do this, but I don't think it is against the TOS, so here is my HB referral link [4] Here's also a 20% discount on the humble store for 30 days for one lucky person who isn't a subscriber [5] [1] https://github.com/MayeulC/hb-downloader/tree/next-next https://github.com/MayeulC/hb-downloader/tree/next-next [2] https://github.com/talonius/hb-downloader https://github.com/talonius/hb-downloader [3] https://gitlab.com/silver_rust/trove_downloader/ https://gitlab.com/silver_rust/trove_downloader/ [4] https://www.humblebundle.com/subscription?refc=Y9dywp https://www.humblebundle.com/subscription?refc=Y9dywp [5] https://www.humblebundle.com/subscription/activate-discount?gamekey=h7VDpsvpw7XyfKE7 https://www.humblebundle.com/subscription/activate-discount?...
  - mlindner 6y ago
    At least on Mac, Steam doesn't stick around when you close it. I never understood the PC love for when you close apps have them simply stay resident around in the lower right taskbar. Opening is an active choice.
    - bogwog 6y ago
      Having to wait for Steam to open and log you in every time you want to launch a game sucks, plus keeping it open in the background lets you keep games up-to-date, lets you use the chatroom features, and some other stuff. The good thing about Steam, which makes it good software in my opinion, is that you can easily customize it and turn features off, and nothing really gets forced down your throat. It's almost like Valve feels they actually have to make an effort to keep you as a customer. Compare that to anything from the tech giants.
      - mlindner 6y ago
        > The good thing about Steam, which makes it good software in my opinion, is that you can easily customize it and turn features off, and nothing really gets forced down your throat. It's almost like Valve feels they actually have to make an effort to keep you as a customer. Compare that to anything from the tech giants. If there's a way to turn off most of the recent UI updates I'd love to know how.
        phone8675309 6y ago
        Which UI updates are objectionable to you? Here's a dump of the changes I make on my system when installing Steam. It's not all of them, just the most generally useful. To keep Steam from starting when you log in, select "Steam" from the menu bar and then choose "Settings". Under "Interface", untick "Run Steam when my computer starts". While you're in here, uncheck "Notify me about additions or changes to my games, new releases, and upcoming releases" if you want Steam to not tell you about those. You can use "Set Taskbar Preferences" to select what options appear in the right click menu from the taskbar icon. I run Steam in Small Mode, which makes it look like the old, old version of Steam before they introduced the full screen library. To do this, go to "Steam"->"Settings" and bring up the "Interface" group. Set "Select which Steam window appears when the program starts, and when you double click the Notification Tray icon" to "Library". Click okay and then select "View"->"Small Mode" to show the classic small Steam interface. To the right of the search box at the top of the screen is a selector where you can toggle what is shown - I set this to "Installed" so only installed games are shown. See here[0] for an example. This UI will revert if you uninstall a game - just go to "View"->"Small Mode" to set it again. If you set it before closing Steam then the next time you open Steam it will start in this mode. To avoid being logged into the Friends system by default, open the "Friends" menu from the menu bar and choose "View Friends". Then click the cog in the upper right hand corner of the window that appears - this brings up the settings window. Set "Sign in to friends when Steam Client starts" to off. There are a bunch of notification settings in here - set them as you will. To make the Steam store not suck (bandwidth), go to the "Library" tab in "Steam"->"Settings" and set "Low Bandwidth Mode", "Low Performance Mode", and "Disable Community Content". To turn off Broadcasting, "Steam"->"Settings", "Broadcasting" group and set "Privacy setting" to "Broadcasting Disabled". You can tell Steam to create desktop shortcuts or Start menu shortcuts if you want to not have to open Steam manually to play a game. When installing a game, tick the "Create desktop shortcut" or "Create start menu shortcut" when installing and then you can start the game (and Steam with it) by double clicking that icon. There is no option to automatically quit Steam after a game exits (because of course there isn't - "wHy WoUlD aNyBoDy WaNt To ClOsE sTeAm" the fanboys go). For installed games, you can right click and choose "Create Desktop Shortcut" to get a desktop shortcut for your game. You can use the "steam://" URL generated anywhere Windows accepts URLs to launch steam games. Some people like auto-updates. Some people hate that they suck bandwidth, especially for single player games. Unfortunately, there is no option in not auto-update the game - you can chose "Always keep this game up to date", "Only update this game when I launch it", or "High Priority - Always auto-update this game before others" in the game properties. Setting this to "Only update this game when I launch it" will try to perform updates when you start a game - if you have this set and you have the downloads set to not download while in game, you should be able to force launch a game without updates and download will not start. Set up "Offline Mode" now. If Steam is down and you haven't used "Offline Mode" recently then you won't be able to play your games with Steam offline. Choose "Steam"->"Go Offline..." to run Steam in offline mode. This has the benefit of being disconnected from the Steam service, updates, friends, etc. [0] https://imgur.com/WOUpLkr https://imgur.com/WOUpLkr
  - polytely 6y ago
    itch.io is a great place to get drm free (indie) games.
  - aryik 6y ago
    This is why I love the Switch compared to all the other modern consoles. When I try to use a PS4 or an Xbox it feels like I'm fighting to be able to play - 10's of GB's of updates that take hours to "copy" after download, slow system updates, games that need to install for an hour after you put in the disc, etc. etc. The Switch is the first console I've used in years where it seems like the maker of the console actually wants me to play games.
    - cruano 6y ago
      Except when you go into the eshop and have to scroll down pages of shovelware to find anything decent
      - aryik 6y ago
        Fair enough. I haven’t had that experience yet because I’ve been working through the first party titles like Zelda and Mario.
- arkanciscan 6y ago
  I get all my games from Codex and Fitgirl. No multiplayer, but you don't want that anyway.
  - phone8675309 6y ago
    Don't sell CODEX/PLAZA short - there are Steamworks and CreamAPI multiplayer fixes shipped sometimes, and sometimes Fitgirl will add them in with the repack. (Anybody reading this - there are publicly available NFO files and posts from Fitgirl that indicate what is included in a release/repack. I would never advocate violating copyright, and I certainly do not do so in a personal capacity.)
    - LukaCEnzo 6y ago
      If people are curious they can find more info on cs.rin.ru steam forums. Great resource.
- strombofulous 6y ago
  FYI, Valve publishes the hardware survey and updates it monthly https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/ https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/ The rest of your post stands, just thought you might be interested
InitialLastName 6y ago
Hardware is difficult and expensive to make, and consumers are very price-sensitive. In a world where everyone has a service subscription or a data hose to subsidize their hardware (see: most phones, game consoles, kitchen appliances, "smart assistants"), it's very difficult to be competitive just making hardware. Given that the Oculus Quest is effectively a flagship phone with a strap attached to it at ~1/10 the sales volume of a flagship phone (rough figures: [0] [1]), it would be very difficult to even pay engineering expenses without a secondary income stream enabled by a) real-identity advertisement targeting/data sucking and b) ecosystem lock-in. [0] https://www.notebookcheck.net/Galaxy-S20-series-sales-numbers-are-worse-than-the-S10-series-S20-the-people-s-choice.466485.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/Galaxy-S20-series-sales-number... [1] https://arinsider.co/2020/05/25/data-dive-has-oculus-sold-800k-quests/ https://arinsider.co/2020/05/25/data-dive-has-oculus-sold-80...
ehsankia 6y ago
I understand allowing the option to login with your Facebook account, but how is forcing it make anything easier?
- bitwize 6y ago
  Doing anything other than logging in with your Facebook account has been crippled; therefore, logging in with your Facebook account is easier. It's just like "Download our app" to get a service the company can easily provide through a Web page, but refuse to. It's not there to benefit you. It's there to benefit the company.
bitwize 6y ago
Because this is how the industry works now. Investors want to see the consistent revenue of XaaS platforms, so XaaS platforms are what you get -- and if you want hardware, it will be platform-tied.
ShamelessC 6y ago
More like the walled garden Apple App Store approach. Except this time it's a company with a bad track record of tracking you. Steam is already the Steam of VR, btw. They have the flagship title (Alyx) and Oculus exclusives aren't necessarily compelling enough to make it a deal breaker.
MayeulC 6y ago
They just want to squeeze as much data as they can out of you. The ultimate goal is to stand as a proxy between you and the real world. I'm not saying this is what they are trying to build with AR and VR, but that's not too far fetched either. Just imagine eye tracking tech in VR headsets. What a trove of data for advertisers! Did the user see may ad? For how long? Etc. I hadn't imagined that before writing this, but they could do the exact same thing in the real world with AR. Did you spend some time looking at that car? You are interested in cars. Spending some time in the garden? Watching birds? Running? Etc. What's better than an always-on, always-ouside device which you use as a proxy to see things, and request information? MITM TLS (which Google technically does with Chrome) becomes useless if you just have access to the eyes.
- 1f60c 6y ago
  > MITM TLS (which Google technically does with Chrome) Do you have a source?
  - MayeulC 6y ago
    I worded that rather provocatively, but Google chrome is the man in the middle between you and the servers. Since it manages TLS connections, it could access everything if it wanted to. I am not sure it does send detailed telemetry on visited pages and contents to Google, but that wouldn't surprise me (and your sibling comment hints at that). I wondered if there was some correlation between Google pushing for HTTPS and their introduction of chrome, but I guess that's unrelated, as they didn't have this capability before (except for users of their toolbar).
- strombofulous 6y ago
  > MITM TLS (which Google technically does with Chrome) Google does not (need to) do this. Download a program like Fiddler and check for yourself.
LegitShady 6y ago
Oculus was always trying to do this. When they first launched they did the same purchased exclusives stuff epic has done. Their software isn't compatible with other platforms except through unsupported hacks and they have no plans of changing that. This was the whole oculus spirit since the beginning.
squeaky-clean 6y ago
Windows Mixed Reality headsets are the best in this regard. Still locked to Windows but at least that's not a social platform. I really wish there was a version of it with better quality controller tracking, it's fairly good, but not on par with Oculus or Valve controller tracking.
moron4hire 6y ago
The platform play was the only reason they bought Oculus.

phone8675309 6y ago

Because the companies make a large amount of money on the platform. Look at Apple/Google/MS/Sony/Nintendo charging for access to the platform - either explicitly for online play, by taking a cut of sales on the platform, or in the case of the console makers - both. As someone who prefers to play games alone, it's frustrating. The first five minutes after installing Steam is a constantly stream of "stfu and stop shoving game release/update/sale announcements in my face", "gtfo with the popup messages that a friend is playing a game", "wtf? why are you auto-logging me into the messenger", "no, I don't consent to you building a hardware inventory of my machine and using it for internal stats", and "jfc, please just leave me alone and let me play some games". It's almost enough to make me buy a shack in Montana and support the post office.

_trampeltier 6y ago
For me it's the reason, why I never started gaming again. I just wanna buy a game and play. I don't wanna have any spyware on my PC.
- phone8675309 6y ago
  GOG is good if the game you want to play is on there - if you don't install GOG Galaxy. You can download an executable installer from their website that is DRM free, can be installed offline, and you can keep a copy of forever.
  - fartcannon 6y ago
    GOG's weird position on Linux users quacks like a duck in my opinion. The quotes have a real Tim Sweeney vibe to them.
- reaperducer 6y ago
  It's also an argument for retro games. Plug in a cartridge and go from power on to playing the game in a matter of seconds, with no privacy invasion.
- crtasm 6y ago
  Subscribe to Humble Choice for a month and download all the drm-free games from their "Trove"!
  - MayeulC 6y ago
    Some time ago I worked on a tool [1] to do just that, unsure if it would still work. I also got lost between feature development and fixes in my git branches at the time, and never had time to finish this. Looks like upstream [2] became active again and merged some of my improvements, unsure if it works with the trove. I was also just made aware of this new project, dedicated to that issue [3]. I'd advise someone to start looking at the last one. I don't usually do this, but I don't think it is against the TOS, so here is my HB referral link [4] Here's also a 20% discount on the humble store for 30 days for one lucky person who isn't a subscriber [5] [1] https://github.com/MayeulC/hb-downloader/tree/next-next https://github.com/MayeulC/hb-downloader/tree/next-next [2] https://github.com/talonius/hb-downloader https://github.com/talonius/hb-downloader [3] https://gitlab.com/silver_rust/trove_downloader/ https://gitlab.com/silver_rust/trove_downloader/ [4] https://www.humblebundle.com/subscription?refc=Y9dywp https://www.humblebundle.com/subscription?refc=Y9dywp [5] https://www.humblebundle.com/subscription/activate-discount?gamekey=h7VDpsvpw7XyfKE7 https://www.humblebundle.com/subscription/activate-discount?...
- mlindner 6y ago
  At least on Mac, Steam doesn't stick around when you close it. I never understood the PC love for when you close apps have them simply stay resident around in the lower right taskbar. Opening is an active choice.
  - bogwog 6y ago
    Having to wait for Steam to open and log you in every time you want to launch a game sucks, plus keeping it open in the background lets you keep games up-to-date, lets you use the chatroom features, and some other stuff. The good thing about Steam, which makes it good software in my opinion, is that you can easily customize it and turn features off, and nothing really gets forced down your throat. It's almost like Valve feels they actually have to make an effort to keep you as a customer. Compare that to anything from the tech giants.
    - mlindner 6y ago
      > The good thing about Steam, which makes it good software in my opinion, is that you can easily customize it and turn features off, and nothing really gets forced down your throat. It's almost like Valve feels they actually have to make an effort to keep you as a customer. Compare that to anything from the tech giants. If there's a way to turn off most of the recent UI updates I'd love to know how.
      - phone8675309 6y ago
        Which UI updates are objectionable to you? Here's a dump of the changes I make on my system when installing Steam. It's not all of them, just the most generally useful. To keep Steam from starting when you log in, select "Steam" from the menu bar and then choose "Settings". Under "Interface", untick "Run Steam when my computer starts". While you're in here, uncheck "Notify me about additions or changes to my games, new releases, and upcoming releases" if you want Steam to not tell you about those. You can use "Set Taskbar Preferences" to select what options appear in the right click menu from the taskbar icon. I run Steam in Small Mode, which makes it look like the old, old version of Steam before they introduced the full screen library. To do this, go to "Steam"->"Settings" and bring up the "Interface" group. Set "Select which Steam window appears when the program starts, and when you double click the Notification Tray icon" to "Library". Click okay and then select "View"->"Small Mode" to show the classic small Steam interface. To the right of the search box at the top of the screen is a selector where you can toggle what is shown - I set this to "Installed" so only installed games are shown. See here[0] for an example. This UI will revert if you uninstall a game - just go to "View"->"Small Mode" to set it again. If you set it before closing Steam then the next time you open Steam it will start in this mode. To avoid being logged into the Friends system by default, open the "Friends" menu from the menu bar and choose "View Friends". Then click the cog in the upper right hand corner of the window that appears - this brings up the settings window. Set "Sign in to friends when Steam Client starts" to off. There are a bunch of notification settings in here - set them as you will. To make the Steam store not suck (bandwidth), go to the "Library" tab in "Steam"->"Settings" and set "Low Bandwidth Mode", "Low Performance Mode", and "Disable Community Content". To turn off Broadcasting, "Steam"->"Settings", "Broadcasting" group and set "Privacy setting" to "Broadcasting Disabled". You can tell Steam to create desktop shortcuts or Start menu shortcuts if you want to not have to open Steam manually to play a game. When installing a game, tick the "Create desktop shortcut" or "Create start menu shortcut" when installing and then you can start the game (and Steam with it) by double clicking that icon. There is no option to automatically quit Steam after a game exits (because of course there isn't - "wHy WoUlD aNyBoDy WaNt To ClOsE sTeAm" the fanboys go). For installed games, you can right click and choose "Create Desktop Shortcut" to get a desktop shortcut for your game. You can use the "steam://" URL generated anywhere Windows accepts URLs to launch steam games. Some people like auto-updates. Some people hate that they suck bandwidth, especially for single player games. Unfortunately, there is no option in not auto-update the game - you can chose "Always keep this game up to date", "Only update this game when I launch it", or "High Priority - Always auto-update this game before others" in the game properties. Setting this to "Only update this game when I launch it" will try to perform updates when you start a game - if you have this set and you have the downloads set to not download while in game, you should be able to force launch a game without updates and download will not start. Set up "Offline Mode" now. If Steam is down and you haven't used "Offline Mode" recently then you won't be able to play your games with Steam offline. Choose "Steam"->"Go Offline..." to run Steam in offline mode. This has the benefit of being disconnected from the Steam service, updates, friends, etc. [0] https://imgur.com/WOUpLkr https://imgur.com/WOUpLkr
- polytely 6y ago
  itch.io is a great place to get drm free (indie) games.
- aryik 6y ago
  This is why I love the Switch compared to all the other modern consoles. When I try to use a PS4 or an Xbox it feels like I'm fighting to be able to play - 10's of GB's of updates that take hours to "copy" after download, slow system updates, games that need to install for an hour after you put in the disc, etc. etc. The Switch is the first console I've used in years where it seems like the maker of the console actually wants me to play games.
  - cruano 6y ago
    Except when you go into the eshop and have to scroll down pages of shovelware to find anything decent
    - aryik 6y ago
      Fair enough. I haven’t had that experience yet because I’ve been working through the first party titles like Zelda and Mario.
arkanciscan 6y ago
I get all my games from Codex and Fitgirl. No multiplayer, but you don't want that anyway.
- phone8675309 6y ago
  Don't sell CODEX/PLAZA short - there are Steamworks and CreamAPI multiplayer fixes shipped sometimes, and sometimes Fitgirl will add them in with the repack. (Anybody reading this - there are publicly available NFO files and posts from Fitgirl that indicate what is included in a release/repack. I would never advocate violating copyright, and I certainly do not do so in a personal capacity.)
  - LukaCEnzo 6y ago
    If people are curious they can find more info on cs.rin.ru steam forums. Great resource.
strombofulous 6y ago
FYI, Valve publishes the hardware survey and updates it monthly https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/ https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/ The rest of your post stands, just thought you might be interested

InitialLastName 6y ago

Hardware is difficult and expensive to make, and consumers are very price-sensitive. In a world where everyone has a service subscription or a data hose to subsidize their hardware (see: most phones, game consoles, kitchen appliances, "smart assistants"), it's very difficult to be competitive just making hardware. Given that the Oculus Quest is effectively a flagship phone with a strap attached to it at ~1/10 the sales volume of a flagship phone (rough figures: [0] [1]), it would be very difficult to even pay engineering expenses without a secondary income stream enabled by a) real-identity advertisement targeting/data sucking and b) ecosystem lock-in. [0] https://www.notebookcheck.net/Galaxy-S20-series-sales-numbers-are-worse-than-the-S10-series-S20-the-people-s-choice.466485.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/Galaxy-S20-series-sales-number... [1] https://arinsider.co/2020/05/25/data-dive-has-oculus-sold-800k-quests/ https://arinsider.co/2020/05/25/data-dive-has-oculus-sold-80...

ehsankia 6y ago

I understand allowing the option to login with your Facebook account, but how is forcing it make anything easier?

bitwize 6y ago
Doing anything other than logging in with your Facebook account has been crippled; therefore, logging in with your Facebook account is easier. It's just like "Download our app" to get a service the company can easily provide through a Web page, but refuse to. It's not there to benefit you. It's there to benefit the company.

bitwize 6y ago

Because this is how the industry works now. Investors want to see the consistent revenue of XaaS platforms, so XaaS platforms are what you get -- and if you want hardware, it will be platform-tied.

ShamelessC 6y ago

More like the walled garden Apple App Store approach. Except this time it's a company with a bad track record of tracking you. Steam is already the Steam of VR, btw. They have the flagship title (Alyx) and Oculus exclusives aren't necessarily compelling enough to make it a deal breaker.

MayeulC 6y ago

They just want to squeeze as much data as they can out of you. The ultimate goal is to stand as a proxy between you and the real world. I'm not saying this is what they are trying to build with AR and VR, but that's not too far fetched either. Just imagine eye tracking tech in VR headsets. What a trove of data for advertisers! Did the user see may ad? For how long? Etc. I hadn't imagined that before writing this, but they could do the exact same thing in the real world with AR. Did you spend some time looking at that car? You are interested in cars. Spending some time in the garden? Watching birds? Running? Etc. What's better than an always-on, always-ouside device which you use as a proxy to see things, and request information? MITM TLS (which Google technically does with Chrome) becomes useless if you just have access to the eyes.

1f60c 6y ago
> MITM TLS (which Google technically does with Chrome) Do you have a source?
- MayeulC 6y ago
  I worded that rather provocatively, but Google chrome is the man in the middle between you and the servers. Since it manages TLS connections, it could access everything if it wanted to. I am not sure it does send detailed telemetry on visited pages and contents to Google, but that wouldn't surprise me (and your sibling comment hints at that). I wondered if there was some correlation between Google pushing for HTTPS and their introduction of chrome, but I guess that's unrelated, as they didn't have this capability before (except for users of their toolbar).
strombofulous 6y ago
> MITM TLS (which Google technically does with Chrome) Google does not (need to) do this. Download a program like Fiddler and check for yourself.

LegitShady 6y ago

Oculus was always trying to do this. When they first launched they did the same purchased exclusives stuff epic has done. Their software isn't compatible with other platforms except through unsupported hacks and they have no plans of changing that. This was the whole oculus spirit since the beginning.

squeaky-clean 6y ago

Windows Mixed Reality headsets are the best in this regard. Still locked to Windows but at least that's not a social platform. I really wish there was a version of it with better quality controller tracking, it's fairly good, but not on par with Oculus or Valve controller tracking.

moron4hire 6y ago

The platform play was the only reason they bought Oculus.