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How does AWS deal with encrypted child porn that sits on their servers? They don't because they have no clue about it. How does Comcast deal with in-transit chi

by lifty 6y ago

How does AWS deal with encrypted child porn that sits on their servers? They don't because they have no clue about it. How does Comcast deal with in-transit child porn that passes through their routers? They don't because they don't have a clue about it. The same thing applies to filecoin/ipfs. If you host some encrypted cp files and nobody knows about them, then thats that. If the FBI and subsequently you find out that you have these files, you will remove them and then thats that. Obviously we have to do our best to get rid of cp in our societies but that doesn't mean that we can always solve it technically. Do you also support encryption backdoors? If you do, then I disagree with you but I respect your principled stance.

boring_twenties 6y ago
> If the FBI and subsequently you find out that you have these files, you will remove them and then thats that. Sorry, what? How do you imagine that works? Wouldn't it actually constitute destruction of evidence, which is a felony?
- lifty 6y ago
  That's not what I meant. Liability laws for people/organisations that provide a digital service differ from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, but I would presume that if the FBI identifies that you host some encrypted cp files, without you knowing, you will at least get the benefit of the doubt and be able to prove that you couldn't know they were cp. In the situation that you somehow get the unique hash for the encrypted CP files before the FBI can tell that you host them, I don't know what would be your legal responsibility. But naively thinking about it, I would expect a good citizen to delete them, therefore not contributing to spreading cp around.
  - boring_twenties 6y ago
    I'm not sure why exactly you would presume that? If you need to "prove you couldn't know," that happens in court, after you are charged with the very serious crimes and have all electronics you own confiscated. edit: As to your second paragraph, I'm not a lawyer but I'm pretty sure that would technically be felony destruction of evidence (odds of prosecution being another question entirely).
    - lifty 6y ago
      That doesn’t always happen in court. Indeed the FBI will confiscate your electronics but after their investigation they might decide to press charges or not. I am curious if this situation was tested in court before: storing encrypted files as part of a p2p network, without having the ability to know what’s inside those files. If you are automatically liable for the contents of the files you store, even if they are encrypted and you have no awareness of what’s inside, then it would make p2p networks close to impossible. I would then also wonder how a provider like AWS can have safe harbor, while an individual wouldn’t.
      - boring_twenties 6y ago
        > they might decide to press charges or not Exactly. In your initial post, you claimed it was a foregone conclusion that they would decline to press charges. And I don't know about you, but having my electronics confiscated for an indeterminate length of time would be more than bad enough. How are you even going to pay your attorney, if you can't do your job without a computer? I'm pretty sure that in the end, you wouldn't be liable. But you might have to prove it. For example, it's perfectly legal to run a Tor exit node in the US. It's still strongly advised that you don't do it from your home, however.

by lifty 6y ago

boring_twenties 6y ago

> If the FBI and subsequently you find out that you have these files, you will remove them and then thats that. Sorry, what? How do you imagine that works? Wouldn't it actually constitute destruction of evidence, which is a felony?

lifty 6y ago
That's not what I meant. Liability laws for people/organisations that provide a digital service differ from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, but I would presume that if the FBI identifies that you host some encrypted cp files, without you knowing, you will at least get the benefit of the doubt and be able to prove that you couldn't know they were cp. In the situation that you somehow get the unique hash for the encrypted CP files before the FBI can tell that you host them, I don't know what would be your legal responsibility. But naively thinking about it, I would expect a good citizen to delete them, therefore not contributing to spreading cp around.
- boring_twenties 6y ago
  I'm not sure why exactly you would presume that? If you need to "prove you couldn't know," that happens in court, after you are charged with the very serious crimes and have all electronics you own confiscated. edit: As to your second paragraph, I'm not a lawyer but I'm pretty sure that would technically be felony destruction of evidence (odds of prosecution being another question entirely).
  - lifty 6y ago
    That doesn’t always happen in court. Indeed the FBI will confiscate your electronics but after their investigation they might decide to press charges or not. I am curious if this situation was tested in court before: storing encrypted files as part of a p2p network, without having the ability to know what’s inside those files. If you are automatically liable for the contents of the files you store, even if they are encrypted and you have no awareness of what’s inside, then it would make p2p networks close to impossible. I would then also wonder how a provider like AWS can have safe harbor, while an individual wouldn’t.
    - boring_twenties 6y ago
      > they might decide to press charges or not Exactly. In your initial post, you claimed it was a foregone conclusion that they would decline to press charges. And I don't know about you, but having my electronics confiscated for an indeterminate length of time would be more than bad enough. How are you even going to pay your attorney, if you can't do your job without a computer? I'm pretty sure that in the end, you wouldn't be liable. But you might have to prove it. For example, it's perfectly legal to run a Tor exit node in the US. It's still strongly advised that you don't do it from your home, however.