7 ms·

This is a pretty sane move on MS's part... I find it reasonable that an OS doesn't let you remove what may be the only browser on the system, for a lot of reas

This is a pretty sane move on MS's part... I find it reasonable that an OS doesn't let you remove what may be the only browser on the system, for a lot of reasons. I read this as a push to really ditch IE in the very near future, and don't really mind at all. In no particular order - Something has to provide a native webview for desktop applications - MS has no default package manager for users, and doesn't provide browser downloads on their "store" (or at least I wasn't able to find any, I may be missing something). So removing the browser may leave a user unable to bootstrap another browser onto the system (at least once IE is actually gone) without outside help or another machine. - The browser itself takes up a pretty negligible amount of disk space, there isn't really any benefit to removing it (unless MS is playing dirty and starting it behind the scenes, but at least in my usage, I haven't seen this). So these users don't want it "GONE", they just want to desktop shortcut removed (and I actually agree, MS shouldn't push as hard here). - There are lots of system integrations that expect at least one browser to exist, removing the only shipped browser may break these, or add a lot of complexity to some feature implementations.

moldavi 6y ago
Cant MS just provide a button somewhere that downloads and installs the browser? A computer doesn't need a browser to download something from the internet (such as a browser).
- hu3 6y ago
  One plausible reason to provide a browser by default is to help debugging internet connection issues on new setups. Happened with me once.
- mc32 6y ago
  Can’t they use the Windows App Store to let users install their browser of choice?
  - lostmsu 6y ago
    I think it has a rule, that prohibits 3rd party browser engines. :/
    - cassianoleal 6y ago
      It doesn't have to be a 3rd party. It could be Edge itself.
    - jacquesm 6y ago
      Why would it have that rule?
      - lostmsu 6y ago
        "Security": https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/uwp/publish/store-policies#102-security https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/uwp/publish/store-p...
    - boudin 6y ago
      Does it prohibit the new Edge then?
      - lostmsu 6y ago
        The rules these guys set for others never apply to themselves.
    - harrygeez 6y ago
      I don't think it's that, rather it makes it nigh impossible because the browsers will have to be rewritten to use UWP APIs, which were quite limited when they first launched. Also they won't be able to compete with Edge which had access to restricted APIs
      - lostmsu 6y ago
        Windows Store allows non UWP apps for over 2 years now.
- ziml77 6y ago
  What if your router needs some manual configuration through the web interface? I'm not convinced there is much to gain from letting Edge be uninstalled through normal means as long as it's not consuming resources other than some disk space when you're not using it.
  - IanCal 6y ago
    Anything stopping them including the installer with windows?
    - gambiting 6y ago
      But then what's the difference between edge being installed and merely not-yet-unpacked? Like, it's still there. The installer could just create a shortcut and say that it's installed now, would that be enough? Seems silly.
  - milankragujevic 6y ago
    re: router config, see my comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24203962 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24203962
- grawprog 6y ago
  I know it's not user friendly for the average person, but there is powershell. It can be used to download files from the internet. https://blog.jourdant.me/post/3-ways-to-download-files-with-powershell https://blog.jourdant.me/post/3-ways-to-download-files-with-... There's also always the option MS could have done, disable uninstall of the last browser on the os, whichever that may be. So if you have chrome, edge and firefox and you remove 2 of them, trying to uninstall the third one would give a warning or stop you or something.
Barrin92 6y ago
this was already solved ten years ago when Microsoft was fined half a billion bucks by the EU for promoting their own browser this way and disadvantaging competition https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-21684329#:~:text=Microsoft%20has%20been%20fined%20561m,an%20earlier%20EU%20competition%20investigation https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-21684329#:~:text=Microso.... very simple solution: offer a browser choice window on first start.
- Spivak 6y ago
  There's not too much point in citing this ruling anymore since it would never go this way again. Every non-Windows OS ships with a default browser (including Linux distros!) and locked-down platforms like TVs, DVD players, iOS, consoles, fridges, you can't even install another browser.
- ChrisLomont 6y ago
  That requirement ended in 2014. Now everything comes with a web browser, and most are even less changeable than in Windows. The world is a different place than in 2014. https://www.extremetech.com/computing/196170-microsoft-is-finally-allowed-to-once-again-set-ie-as-the-default-browser-in-windows https://www.extremetech.com/computing/196170-microsoft-is-fi...
notatoad 6y ago
the only dumb part is that they don't explain this in the linked help page. clearly users are looking for an answer of why they can't uninstall edge. instead of the answer being you can't install edge because it's too awesome to be uninstalled, why not just tell people that you can't uninstall it because other apps would break.
Spivak 6y ago
Yeah, I'm not really sure what all the hate is about. MS shipping and updating their browser as an OS component is super reasonable and not unexpected at all. Like there's plenty of reason to be mad at all the different ways MS pushes Edge in Windows but shipping it with Windows Update would be pretty low on my list.
ethbro 6y ago
> So removing the browser may leave a user unable to bootstrap another browser onto the system (at least once IE is actually gone) without outside help or another machine. Invoke-WebRequest 'https://download.mozilla.org/?product=firefox-latest-ssl&os=win64&lang=en-US' -OutFile firefox-latest.exe
- amf12 6y ago
  > Invoke-WebRequest 'https://download.mozilla.org/?product=firefox-latest-ssl&os=win64&lang=en-US' https://download.mozilla.org/?product=firefox-latest-ssl&os=... -OutFile firefox-latest.exe A majority of Windows users can't be expected to do this. Think of the target demographic which uses Windows.
  - true_religion 6y ago
    This could easily be packaged into a shell command by Microsoft and just let regular user click that to reinstall the browser.
- jafingi 6y ago
  Did you use a browser to get that command? And did you type it by hand, or copy pasting it?
  - rootsudo 6y ago
    Powershell. It's like telling normal users "just apt-get."
- perlbeatdong 6y ago
  Which is a complex string you need to google, as opposed to the cli command that easily uninstalls edge. How will you download this if you just moved out of your mom's house and bought a laptop and a router? How do you set up that router? Displaying a web page is part of the core os. You don't have to use explorer.exe as a file manager either, nor /bin/sh.
  - 6y ago
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
badrabbit 6y ago
I call b.s. on that. Edge does actively check and scrape data from other browsers so it knows it isn't the last or default browser. You don't need a browser to use a windows workstation with pre-installed productivity apps. You might find edge itself is undesirable on your systems because people try to use it to access sites and you din't to support edge operationally or vulnerability management. I thought the 90s anti-trust lawsuit against MS was exactly about this?
charwalker 6y ago
It does go full screen, lock focus, and pin itself to the taskbar on first launch. Some have reported that i copied in their settings/bookmarks from Chrome without user prompt too but it did not for me.

moldavi 6y ago

Cant MS just provide a button somewhere that downloads and installs the browser? A computer doesn't need a browser to download something from the internet (such as a browser).

hu3 6y ago
One plausible reason to provide a browser by default is to help debugging internet connection issues on new setups. Happened with me once.
mc32 6y ago
Can’t they use the Windows App Store to let users install their browser of choice?
- lostmsu 6y ago
  I think it has a rule, that prohibits 3rd party browser engines. :/
  - cassianoleal 6y ago
    It doesn't have to be a 3rd party. It could be Edge itself.
  - jacquesm 6y ago
    Why would it have that rule?
    - lostmsu 6y ago
      "Security": https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/uwp/publish/store-policies#102-security https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/uwp/publish/store-p...
  - boudin 6y ago
    Does it prohibit the new Edge then?
    - lostmsu 6y ago
      The rules these guys set for others never apply to themselves.
  - harrygeez 6y ago
    I don't think it's that, rather it makes it nigh impossible because the browsers will have to be rewritten to use UWP APIs, which were quite limited when they first launched. Also they won't be able to compete with Edge which had access to restricted APIs
    - lostmsu 6y ago
      Windows Store allows non UWP apps for over 2 years now.
ziml77 6y ago
What if your router needs some manual configuration through the web interface? I'm not convinced there is much to gain from letting Edge be uninstalled through normal means as long as it's not consuming resources other than some disk space when you're not using it.
- IanCal 6y ago
  Anything stopping them including the installer with windows?
  - gambiting 6y ago
    But then what's the difference between edge being installed and merely not-yet-unpacked? Like, it's still there. The installer could just create a shortcut and say that it's installed now, would that be enough? Seems silly.
- milankragujevic 6y ago
  re: router config, see my comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24203962 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24203962
grawprog 6y ago
I know it's not user friendly for the average person, but there is powershell. It can be used to download files from the internet. https://blog.jourdant.me/post/3-ways-to-download-files-with-powershell https://blog.jourdant.me/post/3-ways-to-download-files-with-... There's also always the option MS could have done, disable uninstall of the last browser on the os, whichever that may be. So if you have chrome, edge and firefox and you remove 2 of them, trying to uninstall the third one would give a warning or stop you or something.

Barrin92 6y ago

this was already solved ten years ago when Microsoft was fined half a billion bucks by the EU for promoting their own browser this way and disadvantaging competition https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-21684329#:~:text=Microsoft%20has%20been%20fined%20561m,an%20earlier%20EU%20competition%20investigation https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-21684329#:~:text=Microso.... very simple solution: offer a browser choice window on first start.

Spivak 6y ago
There's not too much point in citing this ruling anymore since it would never go this way again. Every non-Windows OS ships with a default browser (including Linux distros!) and locked-down platforms like TVs, DVD players, iOS, consoles, fridges, you can't even install another browser.
ChrisLomont 6y ago
That requirement ended in 2014. Now everything comes with a web browser, and most are even less changeable than in Windows. The world is a different place than in 2014. https://www.extremetech.com/computing/196170-microsoft-is-finally-allowed-to-once-again-set-ie-as-the-default-browser-in-windows https://www.extremetech.com/computing/196170-microsoft-is-fi...

notatoad 6y ago

the only dumb part is that they don't explain this in the linked help page. clearly users are looking for an answer of why they can't uninstall edge. instead of the answer being you can't install edge because it's too awesome to be uninstalled, why not just tell people that you can't uninstall it because other apps would break.

Spivak 6y ago

Yeah, I'm not really sure what all the hate is about. MS shipping and updating their browser as an OS component is super reasonable and not unexpected at all. Like there's plenty of reason to be mad at all the different ways MS pushes Edge in Windows but shipping it with Windows Update would be pretty low on my list.

ethbro 6y ago

> So removing the browser may leave a user unable to bootstrap another browser onto the system (at least once IE is actually gone) without outside help or another machine. Invoke-WebRequest 'https://download.mozilla.org/?product=firefox-latest-ssl&os=win64&lang=en-US' -OutFile firefox-latest.exe

amf12 6y ago
> Invoke-WebRequest 'https://download.mozilla.org/?product=firefox-latest-ssl&os=win64&lang=en-US' https://download.mozilla.org/?product=firefox-latest-ssl&os=... -OutFile firefox-latest.exe A majority of Windows users can't be expected to do this. Think of the target demographic which uses Windows.
- true_religion 6y ago
  This could easily be packaged into a shell command by Microsoft and just let regular user click that to reinstall the browser.
jafingi 6y ago
Did you use a browser to get that command? And did you type it by hand, or copy pasting it?
- rootsudo 6y ago
  Powershell. It's like telling normal users "just apt-get."
perlbeatdong 6y ago
Which is a complex string you need to google, as opposed to the cli command that easily uninstalls edge. How will you download this if you just moved out of your mom's house and bought a laptop and a router? How do you set up that router? Displaying a web page is part of the core os. You don't have to use explorer.exe as a file manager either, nor /bin/sh.
- 6y ago

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

badrabbit 6y ago

I call b.s. on that. Edge does actively check and scrape data from other browsers so it knows it isn't the last or default browser. You don't need a browser to use a windows workstation with pre-installed productivity apps. You might find edge itself is undesirable on your systems because people try to use it to access sites and you din't to support edge operationally or vulnerability management. I thought the 90s anti-trust lawsuit against MS was exactly about this?

charwalker 6y ago

It does go full screen, lock focus, and pin itself to the taskbar on first launch. Some have reported that i copied in their settings/bookmarks from Chrome without user prompt too but it did not for me.