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Billionaires are not bad for society. However they are a magnate for those who seek to mold society in a particular direction and as such they have to either be

Billionaires are not bad for society. However they are a magnate for those who seek to mold society in a particular direction and as such they have to either be exploited or expunged from consideration. Billionaires are in effect about the only means to challenge the political machine that runs each country. They only occur in countries that protected property rights to the point people could amass sufficient wealth so as not be subject to all the pettiness of the political class. Their power is their mobility but only if they have staged their wealth in such a way it cannot merely be confiscated with a single action. Billionaires who come into effect outside of those created by the armed forces of countries being used to enrich their leadership are signs of wildly successful economies that others want to be part of. Yes there is disparity between them and the bottom rungs of the society they are part of but those bottom rungs are usually as far apart from those in nations with no respect for property rights. America isn't suffering from a lack of tax on the wealthy, their wealth or income. America is suffering from misuse of the money taken from all sources used to prop up two political parties so that they are immune to their own actions. When we talk wealth we need to understand how the political class is fleecing America. All this talk of fair wages, $15 an hour, while they lavish pensions on their public employee buddies to the tune of a 100k or more per year, while they gain seats on various commissions and committees paying them 200k a year for part time work all on our dime. The real money issue is the theft by the political class. However they have the best marketing and are adept at playing people against each other.

notJim 6y ago
I find this attitude odd. Billionaires are accountable to no one at all, yet have enormous power over all of us. To you this is a good thing? Our political system is obviously a total disaster, but at least we have the power to change it if we want to. In fact, there are popular movements on both the right and the left that are working to make this change happen. Many of the problems with democratic government are in fact caused by the power of the billionaire class to shape society to their whims. I remember reading a paper that compared people's policy preferences to actual implemented policy. They found no correlation. Instead what they found is that the policy preferences of the wealthy were quite well represented. > America is suffering from misuse of the money taken from all sources used to prop up two political parties so that they are immune to their own actions. This makes no sense. Both political parties are in fact propped up by their wealthy and corporate donors. If you look at the establishment of both parties, you will find that they are indeed quite cozy with your beloved billionaire class. Paul Graham has given hundreds of thousands for example: https://www.opensecrets.org/donor-lookup/results?name=paul+graham https://www.opensecrets.org/donor-lookup/results?name=paul+g..., and he is a fairly mild example. > All this talk of fair wages, $15 an hour, while they lavish pensions on their public employee buddies to the tune of a 100k or more per year, while they gain seats on various commissions and committees paying them 200k a year for part time work all on our dime. Why shouldn't ordinary workers have retirement benefits? It used to be part of the deal: you devote your life to the company, and get to have a decent, comfortable retirement. In the private sector, unions are so weak/nonexistent that these benefits are gone, but why is that a good thing to you? Similarly, if you refuse to pay politicians a good salary, then only the wealthy will become politicians. I guess to you, that would be a good thing, but most of us would prefer having more ordinary people in power, not fewer.
- ghostwriter 6y ago
  > Billionaires are accountable to no one at all, yet have enormous power over all of us. it's not an enormous power, it's economical power to create new things. It's a productive force, unless there's a bad incentive to influence politics. No billionare is capable of dictating you how you should live your life. Politicians are. Separate government from economics and make lobbying and interference into economics illegal and punishable, and you will never see these two groups of people seeking favours from each other.
  - kennywinker 6y ago
    > it's not an enormous power, it's economical power to create new things. It's a productive force, unless there's a bad incentive to influence politics. Like how the waltons use their great creative power to extract taxpayer money in the form of underpaid workers on assistance? (1) Like how bezos' amazon exploits the generation forced out of retirement by the 2008 crash as an underclass of temporary seasonal workers (2) Billionaires got there by exploiting loopholes and viscous cycles that drain money from many people, to consolidate it in the hands of a few. There is an inherent problem with any society that allows the existence of billionaires, while some of their citizens starve as a result. (1) https://www.forbes.com/sites/clareoconnor/2014/04/15/report-walmart-workers-cost-taxpayers-6-2-billion-in-public-assistance/#19327e2d720b https://www.forbes.com/sites/clareoconnor/2014/04/15/report-... (2) https://www.wired.com/story/meet-camperforce-amazons-nomadic-retiree-army/ https://www.wired.com/story/meet-camperforce-amazons-nomadic...
    - dragonwriter 6y ago
      > Like how the waltons use their great creative power to extract taxpayer money in the form of underpaid workers on assistance? That's mostly returning, not extracting, taxpayer money, since employment by WalMart reduces those workers’ eligibility for means-tested, and where it doesn't (e.g., moving up EITC eligibility) the recipient of additional taxpayer money is the worker, not WalMart. Calling this extracting taxpayer money by WalMart, the Walton family, etc., is ludicrous in the extreme. Are the Waltons’ under taxed, sure. But if they were taxed more to provide broader aid, that would increase the share of their employers receiving some kind of public benefits. Which is a good thing, not a problem.
bawana 6y ago
this is why we need to park a guillotine in front of Congress. To remind them who they serve. Term limits NOW.

notJim 6y ago

I find this attitude odd. Billionaires are accountable to no one at all, yet have enormous power over all of us. To you this is a good thing? Our political system is obviously a total disaster, but at least we have the power to change it if we want to. In fact, there are popular movements on both the right and the left that are working to make this change happen. Many of the problems with democratic government are in fact caused by the power of the billionaire class to shape society to their whims. I remember reading a paper that compared people's policy preferences to actual implemented policy. They found no correlation. Instead what they found is that the policy preferences of the wealthy were quite well represented. > America is suffering from misuse of the money taken from all sources used to prop up two political parties so that they are immune to their own actions. This makes no sense. Both political parties are in fact propped up by their wealthy and corporate donors. If you look at the establishment of both parties, you will find that they are indeed quite cozy with your beloved billionaire class. Paul Graham has given hundreds of thousands for example: https://www.opensecrets.org/donor-lookup/results?name=paul+graham https://www.opensecrets.org/donor-lookup/results?name=paul+g..., and he is a fairly mild example. > All this talk of fair wages, $15 an hour, while they lavish pensions on their public employee buddies to the tune of a 100k or more per year, while they gain seats on various commissions and committees paying them 200k a year for part time work all on our dime. Why shouldn't ordinary workers have retirement benefits? It used to be part of the deal: you devote your life to the company, and get to have a decent, comfortable retirement. In the private sector, unions are so weak/nonexistent that these benefits are gone, but why is that a good thing to you? Similarly, if you refuse to pay politicians a good salary, then only the wealthy will become politicians. I guess to you, that would be a good thing, but most of us would prefer having more ordinary people in power, not fewer.

ghostwriter 6y ago
> Billionaires are accountable to no one at all, yet have enormous power over all of us. it's not an enormous power, it's economical power to create new things. It's a productive force, unless there's a bad incentive to influence politics. No billionare is capable of dictating you how you should live your life. Politicians are. Separate government from economics and make lobbying and interference into economics illegal and punishable, and you will never see these two groups of people seeking favours from each other.
- kennywinker 6y ago
  > it's not an enormous power, it's economical power to create new things. It's a productive force, unless there's a bad incentive to influence politics. Like how the waltons use their great creative power to extract taxpayer money in the form of underpaid workers on assistance? (1) Like how bezos' amazon exploits the generation forced out of retirement by the 2008 crash as an underclass of temporary seasonal workers (2) Billionaires got there by exploiting loopholes and viscous cycles that drain money from many people, to consolidate it in the hands of a few. There is an inherent problem with any society that allows the existence of billionaires, while some of their citizens starve as a result. (1) https://www.forbes.com/sites/clareoconnor/2014/04/15/report-walmart-workers-cost-taxpayers-6-2-billion-in-public-assistance/#19327e2d720b https://www.forbes.com/sites/clareoconnor/2014/04/15/report-... (2) https://www.wired.com/story/meet-camperforce-amazons-nomadic-retiree-army/ https://www.wired.com/story/meet-camperforce-amazons-nomadic...
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    > Like how the waltons use their great creative power to extract taxpayer money in the form of underpaid workers on assistance? That's mostly returning, not extracting, taxpayer money, since employment by WalMart reduces those workers’ eligibility for means-tested, and where it doesn't (e.g., moving up EITC eligibility) the recipient of additional taxpayer money is the worker, not WalMart. Calling this extracting taxpayer money by WalMart, the Walton family, etc., is ludicrous in the extreme. Are the Waltons’ under taxed, sure. But if they were taxed more to provide broader aid, that would increase the share of their employers receiving some kind of public benefits. Which is a good thing, not a problem.

bawana 6y ago

this is why we need to park a guillotine in front of Congress. To remind them who they serve. Term limits NOW.