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Knowing your BATNA is critical for negotiating anything, including employment. One of the best ways to accomplish this is to avoid shopping for a job when you’

Knowing your BATNA is critical for negotiating anything, including employment. One of the best ways to accomplish this is to avoid shopping for a job when you’re unhappy with the one you have; when your best alternative is “I keep working at the place I like with the people I’m on good terms with” it’s far easier to start from that no and let yourself be convinced.

quickthrower2 6y ago
You can always bluff. I don’t think people do this enough! I mean a shit job is still a BATNA, and you simply don’t tell the next guy you hate the job. Which is as good as you loving your job and “just dipping my toe in the market” from a negotiation point of view.
- richardbrevig 6y ago
  I don't believe he's talking about the employer, he's discussing the emotional well-being a job seeker would need. If the job seeker hates their own job, they're more likely to jump from one bad situation to another bad situation. But you're right, and I've done that myself. Where I hated a job so badly and just pretended and smiled as much I could until someone hired me out of that situation.
  - quickthrower2 6y ago
    Oh yeah I’ve been in this boat of jumping from bad to bad. That is probably what sparked my comment. Something about experience being the best education also the most expensive! The problem is i didn’t realise there is really no way to tell what a job wi be like until you’ve done it for 1-2 years! Therefore if you think “oh i really want to work for them because they are offering a good job” that’s the weakness I had - in reality you can’t put stock into how good you think it will be. They are trying to sell you on working there after all. By not putting stock into it “ah this is a another job I’ll do my best work but it may turn out shit might be good” then you can emotionally walk away from their offer more easily, and ask for caveats. “Can I move teams if I decide I don’t enjoy the first team after 6 months” and stuff like that could be negotiated before starting. Oh and get it in writing I’ve been burned by verbal “miscommunications” before. And finally I’m going to say “Haskell Tax” is a thing and similar dynamic plays here. They might be the only shop in town offering a Haskell job but if you make it look like you have other options “I applied for a blockchain job too. It’s c++ and Scala not Haskell but the tech looks really cool” then you don’t appear to need them as much.
    - wtracy 6y ago
      > They might be the only shop in town offering a Haskell job I learned this the hard way: Do not let the technology stack be the deciding factor in which job you take. Skipping the Cobol job is reasonable. Picking the only Haskell job because it is the only Haskell job isn't.
richardbrevig 6y ago
> BATNA Best alternative to a negotiated agreement [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_alternative_to_a_negotiated_agreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_alternative_to_a_negotiat...
rurp 6y ago
> avoid shopping for a job when you’re unhappy with the one you have. The problem with this is that bad jobs don't often turn into good jobs, so job hunting under those circumstances is usually the best option. I do agree that it's worthwhile to actively look for other jobs even when you're happy with your current one.

quickthrower2 6y ago

You can always bluff. I don’t think people do this enough! I mean a shit job is still a BATNA, and you simply don’t tell the next guy you hate the job. Which is as good as you loving your job and “just dipping my toe in the market” from a negotiation point of view.

richardbrevig 6y ago
I don't believe he's talking about the employer, he's discussing the emotional well-being a job seeker would need. If the job seeker hates their own job, they're more likely to jump from one bad situation to another bad situation. But you're right, and I've done that myself. Where I hated a job so badly and just pretended and smiled as much I could until someone hired me out of that situation.
- quickthrower2 6y ago
  Oh yeah I’ve been in this boat of jumping from bad to bad. That is probably what sparked my comment. Something about experience being the best education also the most expensive! The problem is i didn’t realise there is really no way to tell what a job wi be like until you’ve done it for 1-2 years! Therefore if you think “oh i really want to work for them because they are offering a good job” that’s the weakness I had - in reality you can’t put stock into how good you think it will be. They are trying to sell you on working there after all. By not putting stock into it “ah this is a another job I’ll do my best work but it may turn out shit might be good” then you can emotionally walk away from their offer more easily, and ask for caveats. “Can I move teams if I decide I don’t enjoy the first team after 6 months” and stuff like that could be negotiated before starting. Oh and get it in writing I’ve been burned by verbal “miscommunications” before. And finally I’m going to say “Haskell Tax” is a thing and similar dynamic plays here. They might be the only shop in town offering a Haskell job but if you make it look like you have other options “I applied for a blockchain job too. It’s c++ and Scala not Haskell but the tech looks really cool” then you don’t appear to need them as much.
  - wtracy 6y ago
    > They might be the only shop in town offering a Haskell job I learned this the hard way: Do not let the technology stack be the deciding factor in which job you take. Skipping the Cobol job is reasonable. Picking the only Haskell job because it is the only Haskell job isn't.

richardbrevig 6y ago

> BATNA Best alternative to a negotiated agreement [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_alternative_to_a_negotiated_agreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_alternative_to_a_negotiat...

rurp 6y ago

> avoid shopping for a job when you’re unhappy with the one you have. The problem with this is that bad jobs don't often turn into good jobs, so job hunting under those circumstances is usually the best option. I do agree that it's worthwhile to actively look for other jobs even when you're happy with your current one.