5 ms·

Of course, you don't like it because it's blockchain, so it must be for child porn and criminals.

by lifty 6y ago

tempsy 6y ago
nope I like some projects, actually, but if you spin up a node you have no control over the content that is stored on your computer. if you really think the first adopters are going to be sharing cat pics you're being incredibly naive.
- lifty 6y ago
  I don't have the expectation that it will be used only for sharing cat pics. Do you only think in extremes? Of course that any permission-less technology will be used for nefarious purposes, among other, but trumpeting the child porn argument immediately shuts down any nuanced discussion.
  - tempsy 6y ago
    every file storage system has to deal with child porn eg dropbox, google drive, amazon, fb, etc etc. the advantage is they can easily convert files to hashes and delete and remove content at scale + work with law enforcement to find and arrest distributors. can filecoin do that? obviously not. the whole point of being decentralized is that that kind of action is not possible. why wouldn't that be incredibly beneficial to any distributor of any type of illegal content that would otherwise be removed from the centralized storage systems?
    - leotaku 6y ago
      I personally don't think that "it would help criminals" is a good argument against any piece of technology nowadays. Distributors of illegal content already have, TOR, torrents, offshore servers and probably hundreds of other custom solutions at their disposal, so yet another distribution network does not seem like a real concern. I do however see how the fear that one's servers might be used to store CP or equally problematic content could stop Filecoin and similar systems from getting adoption.
    - lifty 6y ago
      How does AWS deal with encrypted child porn that sits on their servers? They don't because they have no clue about it. How does Comcast deal with in-transit child porn that passes through their routers? They don't because they don't have a clue about it. The same thing applies to filecoin/ipfs. If you host some encrypted cp files and nobody knows about them, then thats that. If the FBI and subsequently you find out that you have these files, you will remove them and then thats that. Obviously we have to do our best to get rid of cp in our societies but that doesn't mean that we can always solve it technically. Do you also support encryption backdoors? If you do, then I disagree with you but I respect your principled stance.
      - boring_twenties 6y ago
        > If the FBI and subsequently you find out that you have these files, you will remove them and then thats that. Sorry, what? How do you imagine that works? Wouldn't it actually constitute destruction of evidence, which is a felony?
        lifty 6y ago
        That's not what I meant. Liability laws for people/organisations that provide a digital service differ from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, but I would presume that if the FBI identifies that you host some encrypted cp files, without you knowing, you will at least get the benefit of the doubt and be able to prove that you couldn't know they were cp. In the situation that you somehow get the unique hash for the encrypted CP files before the FBI can tell that you host them, I don't know what would be your legal responsibility. But naively thinking about it, I would expect a good citizen to delete them, therefore not contributing to spreading cp around.
        boring_twenties 6y ago
        I'm not sure why exactly you would presume that? If you need to "prove you couldn't know," that happens in court, after you are charged with the very serious crimes and have all electronics you own confiscated. edit: As to your second paragraph, I'm not a lawyer but I'm pretty sure that would technically be felony destruction of evidence (odds of prosecution being another question entirely).
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]

Of course, you don't like it because it's blockchain, so it must be for child porn and criminals.

by lifty 6y ago

Of course, you don't like it because it's blockchain, so it must be for child porn and criminals.

nope I like some projects, actually, but if you spin up a node you have no control over the content that is stored on your computer. if you really think the first adopters are going to be sharing cat pics you're being incredibly naive.

lifty 6y ago
I don't have the expectation that it will be used only for sharing cat pics. Do you only think in extremes? Of course that any permission-less technology will be used for nefarious purposes, among other, but trumpeting the child porn argument immediately shuts down any nuanced discussion.
- tempsy 6y ago
  every file storage system has to deal with child porn eg dropbox, google drive, amazon, fb, etc etc. the advantage is they can easily convert files to hashes and delete and remove content at scale + work with law enforcement to find and arrest distributors. can filecoin do that? obviously not. the whole point of being decentralized is that that kind of action is not possible. why wouldn't that be incredibly beneficial to any distributor of any type of illegal content that would otherwise be removed from the centralized storage systems?
  - leotaku 6y ago
    I personally don't think that "it would help criminals" is a good argument against any piece of technology nowadays. Distributors of illegal content already have, TOR, torrents, offshore servers and probably hundreds of other custom solutions at their disposal, so yet another distribution network does not seem like a real concern. I do however see how the fear that one's servers might be used to store CP or equally problematic content could stop Filecoin and similar systems from getting adoption.
  - lifty 6y ago
    How does AWS deal with encrypted child porn that sits on their servers? They don't because they have no clue about it. How does Comcast deal with in-transit child porn that passes through their routers? They don't because they don't have a clue about it. The same thing applies to filecoin/ipfs. If you host some encrypted cp files and nobody knows about them, then thats that. If the FBI and subsequently you find out that you have these files, you will remove them and then thats that. Obviously we have to do our best to get rid of cp in our societies but that doesn't mean that we can always solve it technically. Do you also support encryption backdoors? If you do, then I disagree with you but I respect your principled stance.
    - boring_twenties 6y ago
      > If the FBI and subsequently you find out that you have these files, you will remove them and then thats that. Sorry, what? How do you imagine that works? Wouldn't it actually constitute destruction of evidence, which is a felony?
      - lifty 6y ago
        That's not what I meant. Liability laws for people/organisations that provide a digital service differ from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, but I would presume that if the FBI identifies that you host some encrypted cp files, without you knowing, you will at least get the benefit of the doubt and be able to prove that you couldn't know they were cp. In the situation that you somehow get the unique hash for the encrypted CP files before the FBI can tell that you host them, I don't know what would be your legal responsibility. But naively thinking about it, I would expect a good citizen to delete them, therefore not contributing to spreading cp around.
        boring_twenties 6y ago
        I'm not sure why exactly you would presume that? If you need to "prove you couldn't know," that happens in court, after you are charged with the very serious crimes and have all electronics you own confiscated. edit: As to your second paragraph, I'm not a lawyer but I'm pretty sure that would technically be felony destruction of evidence (odds of prosecution being another question entirely).
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]