5 ms·

This project has always felt DOA to me - I can't think of any other possibility than the first adopters for this product being distributers of child porn over j

by tempsy 6y ago

This project has always felt DOA to me - I can't think of any other possibility than the first adopters for this product being distributers of child porn over just about anything else.

lifty 6y ago
Of course, you don't like it because it's blockchain, so it must be for child porn and criminals.
- tempsy 6y ago
  nope I like some projects, actually, but if you spin up a node you have no control over the content that is stored on your computer. if you really think the first adopters are going to be sharing cat pics you're being incredibly naive.
  - lifty 6y ago
    I don't have the expectation that it will be used only for sharing cat pics. Do you only think in extremes? Of course that any permission-less technology will be used for nefarious purposes, among other, but trumpeting the child porn argument immediately shuts down any nuanced discussion.
    - tempsy 6y ago
      every file storage system has to deal with child porn eg dropbox, google drive, amazon, fb, etc etc. the advantage is they can easily convert files to hashes and delete and remove content at scale + work with law enforcement to find and arrest distributors. can filecoin do that? obviously not. the whole point of being decentralized is that that kind of action is not possible. why wouldn't that be incredibly beneficial to any distributor of any type of illegal content that would otherwise be removed from the centralized storage systems?
      - leotaku 6y ago
        I personally don't think that "it would help criminals" is a good argument against any piece of technology nowadays. Distributors of illegal content already have, TOR, torrents, offshore servers and probably hundreds of other custom solutions at their disposal, so yet another distribution network does not seem like a real concern. I do however see how the fear that one's servers might be used to store CP or equally problematic content could stop Filecoin and similar systems from getting adoption.
      - lifty 6y ago
        How does AWS deal with encrypted child porn that sits on their servers? They don't because they have no clue about it. How does Comcast deal with in-transit child porn that passes through their routers? They don't because they don't have a clue about it. The same thing applies to filecoin/ipfs. If you host some encrypted cp files and nobody knows about them, then thats that. If the FBI and subsequently you find out that you have these files, you will remove them and then thats that. Obviously we have to do our best to get rid of cp in our societies but that doesn't mean that we can always solve it technically. Do you also support encryption backdoors? If you do, then I disagree with you but I respect your principled stance.
        boring_twenties 6y ago
        > If the FBI and subsequently you find out that you have these files, you will remove them and then thats that. Sorry, what? How do you imagine that works? Wouldn't it actually constitute destruction of evidence, which is a felony?
        lifty 6y ago
        That's not what I meant. Liability laws for people/organisations that provide a digital service differ from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, but I would presume that if the FBI identifies that you host some encrypted cp files, without you knowing, you will at least get the benefit of the doubt and be able to prove that you couldn't know they were cp. In the situation that you somehow get the unique hash for the encrypted CP files before the FBI can tell that you host them, I don't know what would be your legal responsibility. But naively thinking about it, I would expect a good citizen to delete them, therefore not contributing to spreading cp around.
wmf 6y ago
None of the blockchain storage projects that I've seen have Freenet-style deniable storage. Given that they leave an audit trail on a public blockchain, they're arguably even less private than S3-style cloud storage. Basically Filecoin et al. look like they're not useful for child porn.
- tempsy 6y ago
  well it's not going to be used to store cat pics point is there will be illicit content being shared, and why would I want to spin up a node and be roped into some FBI investigation because my computer has bits and pieces of the illicit content they are looking for? whatever tiny reward they offer isn't worth it
  - liability 6y ago
    > point is there will be illicit content being shared You could have just said that, or 'pirated movies', but neither are as inflammatory are they? Instead you chose to make the most offensive assumption you could think up.
    - tempsy 6y ago
      if you really think the earliest adopters of this project are going to be sharing pirated copies of The Avengers over child porn you don't understand anything about the internet and incentives
      - viraptor 6y ago
        Have a look at what ipfs actually does. The nodes involved not only don't try to hide/obscure any metadata, they will share it with anyone running a DHT node and your queries will be pretty much public. Ipfs is probably the worst solution for distributing illegal content. The incentives there are actually to use just about anything else.
      - ClumsyPilot 6y ago
        Why does your understanding of the internet dictates that most early adopters of tech are mentally ill paedophiles? Paedophilia is not like theft, it's only attractive to a small subset of people.

by tempsy 6y ago

This project has always felt DOA to me - I can't think of any other possibility than the first adopters for this product being distributers of child porn over just about anything else.

lifty 6y ago

Of course, you don't like it because it's blockchain, so it must be for child porn and criminals.

tempsy 6y ago
nope I like some projects, actually, but if you spin up a node you have no control over the content that is stored on your computer. if you really think the first adopters are going to be sharing cat pics you're being incredibly naive.
- lifty 6y ago
  I don't have the expectation that it will be used only for sharing cat pics. Do you only think in extremes? Of course that any permission-less technology will be used for nefarious purposes, among other, but trumpeting the child porn argument immediately shuts down any nuanced discussion.
  - tempsy 6y ago
    every file storage system has to deal with child porn eg dropbox, google drive, amazon, fb, etc etc. the advantage is they can easily convert files to hashes and delete and remove content at scale + work with law enforcement to find and arrest distributors. can filecoin do that? obviously not. the whole point of being decentralized is that that kind of action is not possible. why wouldn't that be incredibly beneficial to any distributor of any type of illegal content that would otherwise be removed from the centralized storage systems?
    - leotaku 6y ago
      I personally don't think that "it would help criminals" is a good argument against any piece of technology nowadays. Distributors of illegal content already have, TOR, torrents, offshore servers and probably hundreds of other custom solutions at their disposal, so yet another distribution network does not seem like a real concern. I do however see how the fear that one's servers might be used to store CP or equally problematic content could stop Filecoin and similar systems from getting adoption.
    - lifty 6y ago
      How does AWS deal with encrypted child porn that sits on their servers? They don't because they have no clue about it. How does Comcast deal with in-transit child porn that passes through their routers? They don't because they don't have a clue about it. The same thing applies to filecoin/ipfs. If you host some encrypted cp files and nobody knows about them, then thats that. If the FBI and subsequently you find out that you have these files, you will remove them and then thats that. Obviously we have to do our best to get rid of cp in our societies but that doesn't mean that we can always solve it technically. Do you also support encryption backdoors? If you do, then I disagree with you but I respect your principled stance.
      - boring_twenties 6y ago
        > If the FBI and subsequently you find out that you have these files, you will remove them and then thats that. Sorry, what? How do you imagine that works? Wouldn't it actually constitute destruction of evidence, which is a felony?
        lifty 6y ago
        That's not what I meant. Liability laws for people/organisations that provide a digital service differ from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, but I would presume that if the FBI identifies that you host some encrypted cp files, without you knowing, you will at least get the benefit of the doubt and be able to prove that you couldn't know they were cp. In the situation that you somehow get the unique hash for the encrypted CP files before the FBI can tell that you host them, I don't know what would be your legal responsibility. But naively thinking about it, I would expect a good citizen to delete them, therefore not contributing to spreading cp around.

wmf 6y ago

None of the blockchain storage projects that I've seen have Freenet-style deniable storage. Given that they leave an audit trail on a public blockchain, they're arguably even less private than S3-style cloud storage. Basically Filecoin et al. look like they're not useful for child porn.

tempsy 6y ago
well it's not going to be used to store cat pics point is there will be illicit content being shared, and why would I want to spin up a node and be roped into some FBI investigation because my computer has bits and pieces of the illicit content they are looking for? whatever tiny reward they offer isn't worth it
- liability 6y ago
  > point is there will be illicit content being shared You could have just said that, or 'pirated movies', but neither are as inflammatory are they? Instead you chose to make the most offensive assumption you could think up.
  - tempsy 6y ago
    if you really think the earliest adopters of this project are going to be sharing pirated copies of The Avengers over child porn you don't understand anything about the internet and incentives
    - viraptor 6y ago
      Have a look at what ipfs actually does. The nodes involved not only don't try to hide/obscure any metadata, they will share it with anyone running a DHT node and your queries will be pretty much public. Ipfs is probably the worst solution for distributing illegal content. The incentives there are actually to use just about anything else.
    - ClumsyPilot 6y ago
      Why does your understanding of the internet dictates that most early adopters of tech are mentally ill paedophiles? Paedophilia is not like theft, it's only attractive to a small subset of people.