8 ms·

I never understood..what’s the fascination in turning one county into another? We have Switzerland, France, Belgium, Germany. Why force America to become one of

I never understood..what’s the fascination in turning one county into another? We have Switzerland, France, Belgium, Germany. Why force America to become one of these? Those countries already exist. Turning one country into another doesn’t make sense and isn’t what makes America unique. Imagine I moved to Germany and kept stating “Germany should be more like America because X Y and Z.” Can you imagine how offensive that would be?

zulu-inuoe 6y ago
I believe it's because the people most affected in these situations are also the people who are unable to simply move to a country that benefits them more.
- eanzenberg 6y ago
  Maybe because the country that benefits them more doesn’t really want them, either?
rockinghigh 6y ago
It's not about turning the US into a European country, it's about decreasing wealth inequality. The US is doing a lot worse than the countries you mention--Gini of 41 for the US, vs 27-32 for Switzerland, France, Belgium, Germany. The poverty rate and poverty gaps are also a lot higher in the US. https://data.oecd.org/inequality/poverty-gap.htm https://data.oecd.org/inequality/poverty-gap.htm
- eanzenberg 6y ago
  Perceived wealth inequality. The US has less wealth inequality because most of it is already wealthy. The shrinking middle class is shrinking because most of them are moving to the upper middle class.
  - heylook 6y ago
    Do you have any data to back up this claim? Parent comment provided links. It seems fair to me that a rebuttal should as well.
    - bhupy 6y ago
      It's fairly well documented -> https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/01/25/upshot/shrinking-middle-class.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/01/25/upshot/shrink...
      - neixidbeksoxyd 6y ago
        > Since 2000, the middle class has been shrinking for a decidedly more alarming reason: Incomes have fallen. How does that support the hypothesis that the middle class is shrinking because incomes are rising?
        bhupy 6y ago
        We're talking about since 1967. The Great Recession is a confounding variable.
        joe463369 6y ago
        Cold comfort for anyone born after 1990
        bhupy 6y ago
        Sure, but the root cause of that is pretty well known to be the proliferation of credit default swaps that led to a housing bubble that burst in 2008, and not the mere existence of billionaires writ large. Also, here's a more recent source (August 2020) that's actually an academic paper -> https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Squeezing-the-middle-class_Report.pdf https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Squeezi... > The analyses presented here confirm the broadly accepted picture of rising income inequality and slowing income growth for middle-class Americans. But a few additional points are worth drawing out. First, while the benefits of economic growth have not accrued equally, they have not gone solely to the top 1%. The upper middle class has grown. Second, the main reason for the shrinking of the middle class (defined in absolute terms) is the increase in the number of people with higher incomes.
enragedcacti 6y ago
I'm American and want America to be more like Germany. Is that offensive?
- eanzenberg 6y ago
  To most of the country, yes it’s a bit offensive. If people feel very strongly, they should move to the respective country they strongly believe about. My parents did it, twice.
  - alexashka 6y ago
    Homosexuals were 'a bit offensive' less than a few decades ago. Should they have moved somewhere else too? Every place is going to have a combination of things you agree and disagree with. There isn't a utopia for each person to relocate to, I hope that's obvious. Regarding what's offensive to 'most of the country' - feel free to link me to the polls you looked at to arrive at this conclusion.
    - eanzenberg 6y ago
      Sure, but I guess it depends on how slippery the slope is, and how fast you want to test the slipperiness. Is gender-reassignment surgery for kids offensive today? Is sexualizing kids using LGBTQ slant on media such as Netflix and Disney offensive today? One door leads to the others, down and down we go.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
    - peferron 6y ago
      You need to preface every criticism of the USA with "I love America and it's the greatest country in the world, but...".
  - actuator 6y ago
    You might like 8/10 things about a country, there is nothing wrong in asking changes on the remaining 2 things. Moving to Germany might not give the remaining 8 things easily.
dEnigma 6y ago
If you offer compelling arguments for changing certain aspects of a country to be more similar to another country that handles things better (in your opinion), then I don't see the problem. Sure, some people will always be offended if you propose to change amything about their country, but many more people are open to suggestions for specific changes. Very few people, on the other hand, are actually proposing change just for the sake of "turning one country into another". If that were the case, then I would think it a very weird fascination too.

zulu-inuoe 6y ago

I believe it's because the people most affected in these situations are also the people who are unable to simply move to a country that benefits them more.

eanzenberg 6y ago
Maybe because the country that benefits them more doesn’t really want them, either?

rockinghigh 6y ago

It's not about turning the US into a European country, it's about decreasing wealth inequality. The US is doing a lot worse than the countries you mention--Gini of 41 for the US, vs 27-32 for Switzerland, France, Belgium, Germany. The poverty rate and poverty gaps are also a lot higher in the US. https://data.oecd.org/inequality/poverty-gap.htm https://data.oecd.org/inequality/poverty-gap.htm

eanzenberg 6y ago
Perceived wealth inequality. The US has less wealth inequality because most of it is already wealthy. The shrinking middle class is shrinking because most of them are moving to the upper middle class.
- heylook 6y ago
  Do you have any data to back up this claim? Parent comment provided links. It seems fair to me that a rebuttal should as well.
  - bhupy 6y ago
    It's fairly well documented -> https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/01/25/upshot/shrinking-middle-class.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/01/25/upshot/shrink...
    - neixidbeksoxyd 6y ago
      > Since 2000, the middle class has been shrinking for a decidedly more alarming reason: Incomes have fallen. How does that support the hypothesis that the middle class is shrinking because incomes are rising?
      - bhupy 6y ago
        We're talking about since 1967. The Great Recession is a confounding variable.
        joe463369 6y ago
        Cold comfort for anyone born after 1990
        bhupy 6y ago
        Sure, but the root cause of that is pretty well known to be the proliferation of credit default swaps that led to a housing bubble that burst in 2008, and not the mere existence of billionaires writ large. Also, here's a more recent source (August 2020) that's actually an academic paper -> https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Squeezing-the-middle-class_Report.pdf https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Squeezi... > The analyses presented here confirm the broadly accepted picture of rising income inequality and slowing income growth for middle-class Americans. But a few additional points are worth drawing out. First, while the benefits of economic growth have not accrued equally, they have not gone solely to the top 1%. The upper middle class has grown. Second, the main reason for the shrinking of the middle class (defined in absolute terms) is the increase in the number of people with higher incomes.

enragedcacti 6y ago

I'm American and want America to be more like Germany. Is that offensive?

eanzenberg 6y ago
To most of the country, yes it’s a bit offensive. If people feel very strongly, they should move to the respective country they strongly believe about. My parents did it, twice.
- alexashka 6y ago
  Homosexuals were 'a bit offensive' less than a few decades ago. Should they have moved somewhere else too? Every place is going to have a combination of things you agree and disagree with. There isn't a utopia for each person to relocate to, I hope that's obvious. Regarding what's offensive to 'most of the country' - feel free to link me to the polls you looked at to arrive at this conclusion.
  - eanzenberg 6y ago
    Sure, but I guess it depends on how slippery the slope is, and how fast you want to test the slipperiness. Is gender-reassignment surgery for kids offensive today? Is sexualizing kids using LGBTQ slant on media such as Netflix and Disney offensive today? One door leads to the others, down and down we go.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
  - peferron 6y ago
    You need to preface every criticism of the USA with "I love America and it's the greatest country in the world, but...".
- actuator 6y ago
  You might like 8/10 things about a country, there is nothing wrong in asking changes on the remaining 2 things. Moving to Germany might not give the remaining 8 things easily.

dEnigma 6y ago

If you offer compelling arguments for changing certain aspects of a country to be more similar to another country that handles things better (in your opinion), then I don't see the problem. Sure, some people will always be offended if you propose to change amything about their country, but many more people are open to suggestions for specific changes. Very few people, on the other hand, are actually proposing change just for the sake of "turning one country into another". If that were the case, then I would think it a very weird fascination too.