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> Someone forgot to model growth in the value of the asset, and/or putting the wealth to use. It's surprisingly not different. If you have an asset that is do

> Someone forgot to model growth in the value of the asset, and/or putting the wealth to use. It's surprisingly not different. If you have an asset that is dormant, is $100, and you tax it with 1% for 20 years, you get to $81.79 by calculating 1000.99^20. Now suppose instead, your asset grows by 10% a year, and you have no tax. That asset grows to 1001.10^20 = $672 Now suppose that prior to the investment each year you tax it with 1% and invest the rest, for 20 years, again at 10%. So you get 1000.99^201.10^20 = $550 That $550 of $672 is exactly the same portion as $81.79 is of $100. In other words, growth or no growth, it has exactly the same effect, either way a 1% tax over 20 years takes 18.2%. > Penalizing static value seems almost reasonable. In the philosophy of taxation there's a different approach. Money you own is money you earned. Typically earnings are taxed. You produce X value, and a small portion of X is allocated to a general pot of money to fund general things in society, e.g. infrastructure, rule of law etc. But after that, it's your money. If you then invest it and earn more, again, a portion of those earnings are taxed. But if you don't do anything with the money, for the government to take it, is seen as a form of theft. The principle why the one form of appropriation is okay and the other isn't, is because when you earn, you benefit. And the government benefits, too. When you just store, you don't benefit, and taking it is a purely negative experience. Many people are willing to share part of their new earnings. Few are willing to give up something that has always belonged to them. Inflation is a natural penalty on static value anyway. So are opportunity costs. Plus, actually static value is quite rare, money in a savings account is being put to work by the bank. The amount of really static money (like money under your mattress, or a permanently vacant home) is quite a small portion of the financial system and again being penalised by inflation and opportunity costs already.

coryfklein 6y ago
> In the philosophy of taxation there's a different approach. THE philosophy of taxation? There is no central deciding authority here on a singular philosophy.
jlangemeier 6y ago
You're gussying up a "silicon valley" libertarian viewpoint in "philosophy of taxation." > When you just store, you don't benefit, and taking it is a purely negative experience. Many people are willing to share part of their new earnings. Few are willing to give up something that has always belonged to them. That's a real stretch when just a sentence earlier you talked about earned benefits and taxation of those benefits. Storage is just the accumulation of earned benefits beyond your spending habits. Value isn't created in a vacuum nor is it used in one. And current taxation doesn't preclude future taxation, it's why us common folk are told to do any of our retirement funding that we can as pre-tax, since who's to say something that is taxed today (and is expressly stated as not being taxable in the future) won't be taxed again later on appreciated or total value. So, by this alone, the government saying taxes now, and deferred taxes later if that valuation meets certain thresholds isn't something that the government can't or even shouldn't do. And, in many cases, the tax wouldn't apply to startups or their founders unless they're already sitting on multiple tens of millions of static personal valuation; which is where this whole argument really breaks down, and shows its disingenuous colors. When someone like PG talks about these wealth tax valuations in general terms of percentages, many of us are still thinking on OUR terms, which means we're thinking on "normie" scales of 10s or 100s of thousands, or maybe a couple million, where a 1% drop in valuation YoY would make a significant dent in what we can and can't do; when a wealth tax is floated (at least in the US) it's looking at $10M+ in static assets at the individual level, and applies to a wealth class that only a small percentage of people can actually comprehend. And, when a wealth tax is floated in the US, it also has discussions around non-realized asset valuation (such as small businesses, start-ups, etc) and what classes of assets contribute to the total value of an individual wealth tax. Applying a wealth tax in a general way like how PG has done it is a bit disingenuous, not wrong; but is prone to personal wealth view biases. It becomes even more obvious when we take your example and put it towards something that would actually be taxed... $100M; which you end up with $81M for static assets or $550M instead of $672M in PERSONAL assets. Most only think of numbers in these terms if the "win the lottery" so who in the general public thinks the difference of $122M over a lifetime of nearly 3/4 of a billion dollars in wealth (not earnings, but accumulated valuation) isn't a bit of a "whatever," they'll pay more in taxes on that Mega Millions winner and won't bat an eye. (this also works for the usual lower bound as well, $10M, but $100M is guaranteed to be included in any of the recently floated wealth taxes).

coryfklein 6y ago

> In the philosophy of taxation there's a different approach. THE philosophy of taxation? There is no central deciding authority here on a singular philosophy.

jlangemeier 6y ago

You're gussying up a "silicon valley" libertarian viewpoint in "philosophy of taxation." > When you just store, you don't benefit, and taking it is a purely negative experience. Many people are willing to share part of their new earnings. Few are willing to give up something that has always belonged to them. That's a real stretch when just a sentence earlier you talked about earned benefits and taxation of those benefits. Storage is just the accumulation of earned benefits beyond your spending habits. Value isn't created in a vacuum nor is it used in one. And current taxation doesn't preclude future taxation, it's why us common folk are told to do any of our retirement funding that we can as pre-tax, since who's to say something that is taxed today (and is expressly stated as not being taxable in the future) won't be taxed again later on appreciated or total value. So, by this alone, the government saying taxes now, and deferred taxes later if that valuation meets certain thresholds isn't something that the government can't or even shouldn't do. And, in many cases, the tax wouldn't apply to startups or their founders unless they're already sitting on multiple tens of millions of static personal valuation; which is where this whole argument really breaks down, and shows its disingenuous colors. When someone like PG talks about these wealth tax valuations in general terms of percentages, many of us are still thinking on OUR terms, which means we're thinking on "normie" scales of 10s or 100s of thousands, or maybe a couple million, where a 1% drop in valuation YoY would make a significant dent in what we can and can't do; when a wealth tax is floated (at least in the US) it's looking at $10M+ in static assets at the individual level, and applies to a wealth class that only a small percentage of people can actually comprehend. And, when a wealth tax is floated in the US, it also has discussions around non-realized asset valuation (such as small businesses, start-ups, etc) and what classes of assets contribute to the total value of an individual wealth tax. Applying a wealth tax in a general way like how PG has done it is a bit disingenuous, not wrong; but is prone to personal wealth view biases. It becomes even more obvious when we take your example and put it towards something that would actually be taxed... $100M; which you end up with $81M for static assets or $550M instead of $672M in PERSONAL assets. Most only think of numbers in these terms if the "win the lottery" so who in the general public thinks the difference of $122M over a lifetime of nearly 3/4 of a billion dollars in wealth (not earnings, but accumulated valuation) isn't a bit of a "whatever," they'll pay more in taxes on that Mega Millions winner and won't bat an eye. (this also works for the usual lower bound as well, $10M, but $100M is guaranteed to be included in any of the recently floated wealth taxes).