4 ms·

That’s a lot harder to pull off. What methods do you use to accomplish this?

by skoskie 6y ago

randoramax 6y ago
S3 bucket with object lock is as offline and convenient as it gets
- reaperducer 6y ago
  I don't know much about S3, but isn't S3, by definition, online, not offline?
  - zxcvbn4038 6y ago
    I’ve always wondered if Amazon backs up S3. I don’t think they explicitly say but I get the impression that it is the user’s responsibility to replicate to a second region to guard against data loss so I am guessing not. Object Lock wouldn’t protect against an S3 failure.
    - count 6y ago
      They say it's designed to provide significant durability : https://docs.aws.amazon.com/AmazonS3/latest/dev/DataDurability.html https://docs.aws.amazon.com/AmazonS3/latest/dev/DataDurabili... (99.999999999% durable over a year per object, and able to sustain data loss in 2 facilities). Given the peeks that amazon has provided into the scale of S3, I don't know if you CAN 'back it up'.
    - danielheath 6y ago
      As far as I can tell it’s replicated (by default - see “reduced redundancy storage”), not backed up.
  - csydas 6y ago
    AWS S3 (and a few compliant providers) offer immutable options, both in governance/compliance mode. Allegedly, compliance mode is unalterable by any account period, I guess the equivalent of the immutable attribute without an overriding account. I'm not immediately familiar with any literature on attacks on this feature, but I've also not searched hard; however, I know from my clients that it's an accepted form of WORM, and that cloud storages like S3 are considered in the same vein as tape when immutability is in play. I suppose it will be a case in the future that proves the efficacy of AWS/Azure/s3 providers, but for now, a lot of regulatory policies for 3-2-1 allow for such storage to fulfill the "2" part of the 3-2-1 rule.
- wtracy 6y ago
  If you're going to pitch an AWS service as "offline", then pitch Glacier.
mumblemumble 6y ago
Well, once upon a time, when I worked at a smaller company, I kept a revolving collection of tapes at home. A slightly larger company also used tapes, and stored them at an undisclosed (to me) offsite location. A much larger company kept it all in datacenters, but the "offline" backups were disconnected from the WAN when they weren't actively being used.
- tpayne84 6y ago
  In some cases there is additional requirements as well... For some types of data... HIPPA compliant backups for example must be stored in multiple locations at least 500 miles apart. https://lmgtfy.com/?q=hippa+rule+%22500+miles+apart%22 https://lmgtfy.com/?q=hippa+rule+%22500+miles+apart%22
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
reaperducer 6y ago
That’s a lot harder to pull off. What methods do you use to accomplish this? Depending on how much data you're backing up, sneakernet works. When I was still in the office, my company had me rotate a set of backup hard drives between the office lockup and a strongbox in my house. The notion was that it was unlikely that both the office building and my house 12 miles away would both burn down at the same time. Of course, now I'm working from home, so all of the eggs are in one basket again.
site-packages1 6y ago
Where I worked, weekly point in time backups were required. Those backups were put onto tape drives, those tape drives were set on a pallet and then driven by truck to an offline second location. IMO _that’s_ how it’s done properly.
- zhengyi13 6y ago
  When we used Iron Mountain at my last job, there were two interesting additional concerns: 1) That nobody in our company actually knew where they were physically stored (insider risk?), but 2) That we had assurance that the physical storage was far enough away that a physical disaster in our area wouldn't also touch where the offline storage was located. There's a concomitant jump in RTO if that's what you do this, but hopefully that's well understood among the stakeholders.
  - site-packages1 6y ago
    Definitely a commitment jump, and not always necessary. We ran our own data centers, off the topic of backups, and it was wild to me that they were so disaster proof. There were different power lines from different power companies coming in in case either of the power companies had an outage, and some giant diesel power generator that could last a long time while fully powering the data center.
chiph 6y ago
External USB drives for me. One set of drives is stored in a fire safe at home, one set of drives is stored at the office, and one set is stored at a relative's house in another state. The ones at home get refreshed most often, the ones stored at the office get refreshed about once a quarter, and the one at the relative's house get refreshed during holidays and family get-togethers. The drives are encrypted (Truecrypt) since they will be outside my physical control. The ones at the office I am prepared to abandon should I get fired/laid-off.

That’s a lot harder to pull off. What methods do you use to accomplish this?

randoramax 6y ago

S3 bucket with object lock is as offline and convenient as it gets

reaperducer 6y ago
I don't know much about S3, but isn't S3, by definition, online, not offline?
- zxcvbn4038 6y ago
  I’ve always wondered if Amazon backs up S3. I don’t think they explicitly say but I get the impression that it is the user’s responsibility to replicate to a second region to guard against data loss so I am guessing not. Object Lock wouldn’t protect against an S3 failure.
  - count 6y ago
    They say it's designed to provide significant durability : https://docs.aws.amazon.com/AmazonS3/latest/dev/DataDurability.html https://docs.aws.amazon.com/AmazonS3/latest/dev/DataDurabili... (99.999999999% durable over a year per object, and able to sustain data loss in 2 facilities). Given the peeks that amazon has provided into the scale of S3, I don't know if you CAN 'back it up'.
  - danielheath 6y ago
    As far as I can tell it’s replicated (by default - see “reduced redundancy storage”), not backed up.
- csydas 6y ago
  AWS S3 (and a few compliant providers) offer immutable options, both in governance/compliance mode. Allegedly, compliance mode is unalterable by any account period, I guess the equivalent of the immutable attribute without an overriding account. I'm not immediately familiar with any literature on attacks on this feature, but I've also not searched hard; however, I know from my clients that it's an accepted form of WORM, and that cloud storages like S3 are considered in the same vein as tape when immutability is in play. I suppose it will be a case in the future that proves the efficacy of AWS/Azure/s3 providers, but for now, a lot of regulatory policies for 3-2-1 allow for such storage to fulfill the "2" part of the 3-2-1 rule.
wtracy 6y ago
If you're going to pitch an AWS service as "offline", then pitch Glacier.

mumblemumble 6y ago

Well, once upon a time, when I worked at a smaller company, I kept a revolving collection of tapes at home. A slightly larger company also used tapes, and stored them at an undisclosed (to me) offsite location. A much larger company kept it all in datacenters, but the "offline" backups were disconnected from the WAN when they weren't actively being used.

tpayne84 6y ago
In some cases there is additional requirements as well... For some types of data... HIPPA compliant backups for example must be stored in multiple locations at least 500 miles apart. https://lmgtfy.com/?q=hippa+rule+%22500+miles+apart%22 https://lmgtfy.com/?q=hippa+rule+%22500+miles+apart%22

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

reaperducer 6y ago

That’s a lot harder to pull off. What methods do you use to accomplish this? Depending on how much data you're backing up, sneakernet works. When I was still in the office, my company had me rotate a set of backup hard drives between the office lockup and a strongbox in my house. The notion was that it was unlikely that both the office building and my house 12 miles away would both burn down at the same time. Of course, now I'm working from home, so all of the eggs are in one basket again.

site-packages1 6y ago

Where I worked, weekly point in time backups were required. Those backups were put onto tape drives, those tape drives were set on a pallet and then driven by truck to an offline second location. IMO _that’s_ how it’s done properly.

zhengyi13 6y ago
When we used Iron Mountain at my last job, there were two interesting additional concerns: 1) That nobody in our company actually knew where they were physically stored (insider risk?), but 2) That we had assurance that the physical storage was far enough away that a physical disaster in our area wouldn't also touch where the offline storage was located. There's a concomitant jump in RTO if that's what you do this, but hopefully that's well understood among the stakeholders.
- site-packages1 6y ago
  Definitely a commitment jump, and not always necessary. We ran our own data centers, off the topic of backups, and it was wild to me that they were so disaster proof. There were different power lines from different power companies coming in in case either of the power companies had an outage, and some giant diesel power generator that could last a long time while fully powering the data center.

chiph 6y ago

External USB drives for me. One set of drives is stored in a fire safe at home, one set of drives is stored at the office, and one set is stored at a relative's house in another state. The ones at home get refreshed most often, the ones stored at the office get refreshed about once a quarter, and the one at the relative's house get refreshed during holidays and family get-togethers. The drives are encrypted (Truecrypt) since they will be outside my physical control. The ones at the office I am prepared to abandon should I get fired/laid-off.