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I've honestly never heard anyone say that. Since Spring 5 it's pretty clear there's some interest in server-side Kotlin; there are several heavy-weights behind

I've honestly never heard anyone say that. Since Spring 5 it's pretty clear there's some interest in server-side Kotlin; there are several heavy-weights behind that. However, it's fair to make a distinction between the slowly evolving Android runtime and the JVM. Java language features are catching up with Kotlin, and might even surpass it (I believe pattern matching might land in Java sooner than in Kotlin). Also Kotlin might get stuck for a while when big breaking changes finally come to Java (like Valhalla). I understand why some companies/teams think it's not worth it.

asdfthvaa2 6y ago
>I believe pattern matching might land in Java sooner than in Kotlin Depends on what you call pattern matching. Kotlin had pattern matching from day one, but it's just one level, Java might have it recursive by java 19
- hocuspocus 6y ago
  Calling Kotlin's when pattern matching is a stretch. Even the official documentation doesn't call it like that anywhere.
  - asdfthvaa2 6y ago
    Well, fr sealed classes it's quite good, but yeah, nothing like the scalas and haskells of this life
matsemann 6y ago
Still lots of kotlin-features I don't see land in java soon. My favorite is passing a lambda in brackets when it's the last argument to a function. Makes it easy to make semi-dsls and nice-looking code. So instead of myFun(someVar, { it.something() }) it can be written like myFun(someVar) { it.something() } or if no parameters to the function other than the lambda like myFun { it.something() } making the function almost look and behave like a language keyword. I also use extension-functions a lot. Especially for libraries or legacy-java code we wont touch. Where I work we now use Kotlin for all new backend code. And we don't do any Android.
- agumonkey 6y ago
  is that modeled on ruby ?
  - vvillena 6y ago
    This is a very common idiom in Scala. Function definition is slightly different, but usage is the same.
    - agumonkey 6y ago
      Any example ? or an idiom name I can google ?
      - swsieber 6y ago
        Groovy also does it. I have no idea what the name is though: https://mrhaki.blogspot.com/2009/11/groovy-goodness-passing-closures-to.html?m=1 https://mrhaki.blogspot.com/2009/11/groovy-goodness-passing-...
      - jayrhynas 6y ago
        Swift calls it trailing closure syntax
        agumonkey 6y ago
        Ok so it's an explicit parameter, the function is just ~curried so you can just write it nicely.
      - matsemann 6y ago
        Not sure about the exact name. But kotlin also has "function with receiver" that together with this makes it very easy to write almost a custom domain language on top of kotlin.
        matsemann 6y ago
pjmlp 6y ago
Spring sells to everyone, I am old enough to have seen that playbook with Groovy as main actor.
- BossingAround 6y ago
  Groovy was good in what it set out to do, i.e. bringing Python freshness into the vast Java ecosystem. I loved Grape for single-file scripts. Does any language have similar single-file dependency manager? I guess Go, but then, you have to compile Go, so it might not be as useful, because you distribute binaries anyways.
  - hocuspocus 6y ago
    Scala does, thanks to Ammonite: https://ammonite.io/#import$ivy https://ammonite.io/#import$ivy

asdfthvaa2 6y ago

>I believe pattern matching might land in Java sooner than in Kotlin Depends on what you call pattern matching. Kotlin had pattern matching from day one, but it's just one level, Java might have it recursive by java 19

hocuspocus 6y ago
Calling Kotlin's when pattern matching is a stretch. Even the official documentation doesn't call it like that anywhere.
- asdfthvaa2 6y ago
  Well, fr sealed classes it's quite good, but yeah, nothing like the scalas and haskells of this life

matsemann 6y ago

Still lots of kotlin-features I don't see land in java soon. My favorite is passing a lambda in brackets when it's the last argument to a function. Makes it easy to make semi-dsls and nice-looking code. So instead of myFun(someVar, { it.something() }) it can be written like myFun(someVar) { it.something() } or if no parameters to the function other than the lambda like myFun { it.something() } making the function almost look and behave like a language keyword. I also use extension-functions a lot. Especially for libraries or legacy-java code we wont touch. Where I work we now use Kotlin for all new backend code. And we don't do any Android.

agumonkey 6y ago
is that modeled on ruby ?
- vvillena 6y ago
  This is a very common idiom in Scala. Function definition is slightly different, but usage is the same.
  - agumonkey 6y ago
    Any example ? or an idiom name I can google ?
    - swsieber 6y ago
      Groovy also does it. I have no idea what the name is though: https://mrhaki.blogspot.com/2009/11/groovy-goodness-passing-closures-to.html?m=1 https://mrhaki.blogspot.com/2009/11/groovy-goodness-passing-...
    - jayrhynas 6y ago
      Swift calls it trailing closure syntax
      - agumonkey 6y ago
        Ok so it's an explicit parameter, the function is just ~curried so you can just write it nicely.
    - matsemann 6y ago
      Not sure about the exact name. But kotlin also has "function with receiver" that together with this makes it very easy to write almost a custom domain language on top of kotlin.
      - matsemann 6y ago

pjmlp 6y ago

Spring sells to everyone, I am old enough to have seen that playbook with Groovy as main actor.

BossingAround 6y ago
Groovy was good in what it set out to do, i.e. bringing Python freshness into the vast Java ecosystem. I loved Grape for single-file scripts. Does any language have similar single-file dependency manager? I guess Go, but then, you have to compile Go, so it might not be as useful, because you distribute binaries anyways.
- hocuspocus 6y ago
  Scala does, thanks to Ammonite: https://ammonite.io/#import$ivy https://ammonite.io/#import$ivy