5 ms·

I'd guess that polygraph tests need belief into them working, thus making it work. Polygraphs should be able to (at least) measure nervousness correctly (e.g. d

I'd guess that polygraph tests need belief into them working, thus making it work. Polygraphs should be able to (at least) measure nervousness correctly (e.g. due to transpiration), so if you believe polygraphs may work you're probably someone on which they will work (1). In other words, long proven nonsense as long as you don't believe in it. (1) https://antipolygraph.org/lie-behind-the-lie-detector.pdf https://antipolygraph.org/lie-behind-the-lie-detector.pdf (Chapter 3)

mlang23 6y ago
Hypnosis comes to mind :-)
LatteLazy 6y ago
Per the article: >It is to be noted that around the time Ma applied for employment with the FBI, the Bureau had a roughly 50% polygraph failure rate for special agent applicants, with many honest persons being wrongly branded as liars and barred for life from FBI employment So either 50% of FBI Applicants were actually foreign agents AND believed in polygraphs (why would they if they were trained foreign agents?) OR it's just total bullshit. I think the "it works if you believe in it and some people do" myth is just that... It's a very attractive idea that we can tell (even partially) whether someone is lying. We actually might be able to with an fMRI setup I think. But polygraphs should be long gone as rubbish. I have no idea why anyone in the USA takes them seriously.
- Spooky23 6y ago
  > So either 50% of FBI Applicants were actually foreign agents AND believed in polygraphs (why would they if they were trained foreign agents?) OR it's just total bullshit. I think the "it works if you believe in it and some people do" myth is just that... It's even dumber than that. From what I've heard, the big failure rate is often with respect to drugs. You're allowed to have experimented with marijuana a specific, small number of times.
tingol 6y ago
You're wrong, they do not magically start working if you believe in them. If you're nervous for ANY reason it will give off a false positive. Not only if you're nervous of the machine itself. It is insane it's still being used in the US.
- firebaze 6y ago
  > If you're nervous for ANY reason Agree, and also agree, it's insane. Still that's the presumed thinking behind it. The (anti-polygraph-myth) site I linked comes to a similar conclusion.
- 3pt14159 6y ago
  In former CIA officer Valery Plame's book Fair Game, she describes how an old hand at CIA told her that the best way to get through the polygraph is to be as detailed and honest as possible. Even on subjects that would be embarrassing, merely focussing on describing the truth and knowing that the interviewers appreciate candor can often alleviate nervousness. I've never been polygraphed and I have conflicting views on it, but I suspect if I were ever in the same situation I'd do the same thing. They may not work perfectly, but they are a forcing function to the interviewee. Are you going to tell the whole truth in all its messy detail or not? That said, I don't think they belong in the justice system. Someone who is already accused of a crime has to choose between either doing a polygraph and being potentially being nervous because their freedom is at stake, or denying the polygraph and looking guilty.
  - pc86 6y ago
    Polygraphs are not used in US courts and the results are not admissible at trial, so I'm not sure what you're referring to in the last paragraph.
    - mc32 6y ago
      I think there is confusion/conflation with defendants offering to take a polygraph to prove innocence. Sometimes it’s a naive offer sometimes it’s someone who wants to “show proof” they “didn’t do it”.

mlang23 6y ago

Hypnosis comes to mind :-)

LatteLazy 6y ago

Per the article: >It is to be noted that around the time Ma applied for employment with the FBI, the Bureau had a roughly 50% polygraph failure rate for special agent applicants, with many honest persons being wrongly branded as liars and barred for life from FBI employment So either 50% of FBI Applicants were actually foreign agents AND believed in polygraphs (why would they if they were trained foreign agents?) OR it's just total bullshit. I think the "it works if you believe in it and some people do" myth is just that... It's a very attractive idea that we can tell (even partially) whether someone is lying. We actually might be able to with an fMRI setup I think. But polygraphs should be long gone as rubbish. I have no idea why anyone in the USA takes them seriously.

Spooky23 6y ago
> So either 50% of FBI Applicants were actually foreign agents AND believed in polygraphs (why would they if they were trained foreign agents?) OR it's just total bullshit. I think the "it works if you believe in it and some people do" myth is just that... It's even dumber than that. From what I've heard, the big failure rate is often with respect to drugs. You're allowed to have experimented with marijuana a specific, small number of times.

tingol 6y ago

You're wrong, they do not magically start working if you believe in them. If you're nervous for ANY reason it will give off a false positive. Not only if you're nervous of the machine itself. It is insane it's still being used in the US.

firebaze 6y ago
> If you're nervous for ANY reason Agree, and also agree, it's insane. Still that's the presumed thinking behind it. The (anti-polygraph-myth) site I linked comes to a similar conclusion.
3pt14159 6y ago
In former CIA officer Valery Plame's book Fair Game, she describes how an old hand at CIA told her that the best way to get through the polygraph is to be as detailed and honest as possible. Even on subjects that would be embarrassing, merely focussing on describing the truth and knowing that the interviewers appreciate candor can often alleviate nervousness. I've never been polygraphed and I have conflicting views on it, but I suspect if I were ever in the same situation I'd do the same thing. They may not work perfectly, but they are a forcing function to the interviewee. Are you going to tell the whole truth in all its messy detail or not? That said, I don't think they belong in the justice system. Someone who is already accused of a crime has to choose between either doing a polygraph and being potentially being nervous because their freedom is at stake, or denying the polygraph and looking guilty.
- pc86 6y ago
  Polygraphs are not used in US courts and the results are not admissible at trial, so I'm not sure what you're referring to in the last paragraph.
  - mc32 6y ago
    I think there is confusion/conflation with defendants offering to take a polygraph to prove innocence. Sometimes it’s a naive offer sometimes it’s someone who wants to “show proof” they “didn’t do it”.