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They obviously do have _some_ backups (since were able to restore all videos and all photos - but not all photos at the original resolution). In the end it's a

They obviously do have _some_ backups (since were able to restore all videos and all photos - but not all photos at the original resolution). In the end it's all a tradeoff... ignoring cost, we all know what to do to get pretty safe storage. But how much are you really willing to pay, per month, for that safety?

nix23 6y ago
>but not all photos at the original resolution Thats why you backup the original data and NOT the downscaled etc one. >But how much are you really willing to pay, per month, for that safety? You have to backup ALL your customers data, otherwise DONT go into file-hosting business.
- ChuckNorris89 6y ago
  With your argument, Google photos should also not be in business since they also don't back up your original resolution unless you pay.
  - thekyle 6y ago
    But Google makes it very clear that they don't backup the original photos.
  - nix23 6y ago
    >Google photos should also not be in business since they also don't back up your original resolution unless you pay. Not true, but you are resticted to the free 15Gb.
- virgilp 6y ago
  But they did backup the original data - the article states that the problem was with deploying wrong cleanup code on the long-term storage (that was supposed to be only deployed for the short-term storage). How do you guard against that? You could store everything in backup storage & never delete it, but that has implications: - privacy - legal (GDPR) - cost etc. It's basically a "black swan" event, they designed their system without anticipating this particular failure mode. It's easy to claim in hindsight that "they should've or they should not go into that business" but seriously.... look in the mirror. Are you as tough on yourself when it comes to your customers? Can you honestly claim that there's absolutely no failure mode that could result in customer data loss?
  - nix23 6y ago
    > privacy Encryption? > legal (GDPR) You dont have to delete offline backups...never heard of such a case > cost etc. Cheaper than loose your customer's data wich they trust you with. EDIT: If you can delete a backup it's not a backup.
    - virgilp 6y ago
      Under GDPR "right to be forgotten", you have to delete backups, can't keep them forever - see https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-data-protection/guide-to-the-general-data-protection-regulation-gdpr/individual-rights/right-to-erasure/ https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-data-protectio... There are alternatives (one of which is to encrypt the backed up data & just throw away the encryption keys instead) but of course those incur additional costs > Cheaper than loose your customer's data wich they trust you with. This is just opinion. And also it's heavily context-dependent(cost of losing customer data is not the same for all data or all businesses). > EDIT: If you can delete a backup it's not a backup. If it gets destroyed, is it a backup? How's that different from "delete"? Those were not intentionally deleted, they were accidentally destroyed. Can your backups be accidentally destroyed?
      - nix23 6y ago
        >you have to delete backups, can't keep them forever >>The key issue is to put the backup data ‘beyond use’, even if it cannot be immediately overwritten. It's clear that you cannot delete WORM-tapen with many other data on it. >This is just opinion. Not for a file hosting service, the customer trusts you to do your job. >If it gets destroyed, is it a backup? Destroyed means physikal interaction, since it is not possible to make a reallife backup this is you last line of defence. >Can your backups be accidentally destroyed? Well if someone "accidentally" breaks into my bank opens the right tresor and "accidentally" uses a flametrower..the you are right.
        virgilp 6y ago
        Why did you stop quoting after "immediately overwritten" ? > ie that the backup is simply held on your systems until it is replaced in line with an established schedule Again, you can't keep backups forever, you are _required_ to delete them. Also, not sure why you keep you backups in the bank (do you, really?) but even banks can suffer from fire/arson, explosion (accidental or not), or a number of other natural disasters (earthquake, flooding, etc). [later edit] Also, sort of by definition, in all businesses customers trust you to do your job. Can you give an example of a business where customers don't typically trust you to do your job?
jefftk 6y ago
> since were able to restore all videos and all photos - but not all photos at the original resolution "Canon has said that there is no technical measure to restore lost video files, but that photo files can be restored – albeit not at their original resolution."
- virgilp 6y ago
  Ah I somehow misread that, thought they can restore videos but for photos they don't have the original resolution.

nix23 6y ago

>but not all photos at the original resolution Thats why you backup the original data and NOT the downscaled etc one. >But how much are you really willing to pay, per month, for that safety? You have to backup ALL your customers data, otherwise DONT go into file-hosting business.

ChuckNorris89 6y ago
With your argument, Google photos should also not be in business since they also don't back up your original resolution unless you pay.
- thekyle 6y ago
  But Google makes it very clear that they don't backup the original photos.
- nix23 6y ago
  >Google photos should also not be in business since they also don't back up your original resolution unless you pay. Not true, but you are resticted to the free 15Gb.
virgilp 6y ago
But they did backup the original data - the article states that the problem was with deploying wrong cleanup code on the long-term storage (that was supposed to be only deployed for the short-term storage). How do you guard against that? You could store everything in backup storage & never delete it, but that has implications: - privacy - legal (GDPR) - cost etc. It's basically a "black swan" event, they designed their system without anticipating this particular failure mode. It's easy to claim in hindsight that "they should've or they should not go into that business" but seriously.... look in the mirror. Are you as tough on yourself when it comes to your customers? Can you honestly claim that there's absolutely no failure mode that could result in customer data loss?
- nix23 6y ago
  > privacy Encryption? > legal (GDPR) You dont have to delete offline backups...never heard of such a case > cost etc. Cheaper than loose your customer's data wich they trust you with. EDIT: If you can delete a backup it's not a backup.
  - virgilp 6y ago
    Under GDPR "right to be forgotten", you have to delete backups, can't keep them forever - see https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-data-protection/guide-to-the-general-data-protection-regulation-gdpr/individual-rights/right-to-erasure/ https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-data-protectio... There are alternatives (one of which is to encrypt the backed up data & just throw away the encryption keys instead) but of course those incur additional costs > Cheaper than loose your customer's data wich they trust you with. This is just opinion. And also it's heavily context-dependent(cost of losing customer data is not the same for all data or all businesses). > EDIT: If you can delete a backup it's not a backup. If it gets destroyed, is it a backup? How's that different from "delete"? Those were not intentionally deleted, they were accidentally destroyed. Can your backups be accidentally destroyed?
    - nix23 6y ago
      >you have to delete backups, can't keep them forever >>The key issue is to put the backup data ‘beyond use’, even if it cannot be immediately overwritten. It's clear that you cannot delete WORM-tapen with many other data on it. >This is just opinion. Not for a file hosting service, the customer trusts you to do your job. >If it gets destroyed, is it a backup? Destroyed means physikal interaction, since it is not possible to make a reallife backup this is you last line of defence. >Can your backups be accidentally destroyed? Well if someone "accidentally" breaks into my bank opens the right tresor and "accidentally" uses a flametrower..the you are right.
      - virgilp 6y ago
        Why did you stop quoting after "immediately overwritten" ? > ie that the backup is simply held on your systems until it is replaced in line with an established schedule Again, you can't keep backups forever, you are _required_ to delete them. Also, not sure why you keep you backups in the bank (do you, really?) but even banks can suffer from fire/arson, explosion (accidental or not), or a number of other natural disasters (earthquake, flooding, etc). [later edit] Also, sort of by definition, in all businesses customers trust you to do your job. Can you give an example of a business where customers don't typically trust you to do your job?

jefftk 6y ago

> since were able to restore all videos and all photos - but not all photos at the original resolution "Canon has said that there is no technical measure to restore lost video files, but that photo files can be restored – albeit not at their original resolution."

virgilp 6y ago
Ah I somehow misread that, thought they can restore videos but for photos they don't have the original resolution.