7 ms·

That ship has sailed, in my opinion. Reviews - particularly on Amazon - are meaningless. The cat-and-mouse game has gone so far that as a consumer I see a 4.9

That ship has sailed, in my opinion. Reviews - particularly on Amazon - are meaningless. The cat-and-mouse game has gone so far that as a consumer I see a 4.9 rating as indistinguishable from a 0.9 rating. Buying from an unknown brand is a crapshoot. Buying from a known brand on Amazon isn't much better. And it makes me wonder how long these black hat practices are going to be useful to sellers. Most Amazon users have to be feeling the same way at this point.

corty 6y ago
Reviews still have one purpose left: On a product I'm about to buy, I'll read a handfull of 2-star-reviews and look for frequent problems and failure modes of the product. If I find them convincing and relevant to my use case, I maybe refrain from buying. But other than that, reviews are at best useless or at worst criminally misleading.
- christophilus 6y ago
  Those are often fake, too, though.
  - fock 6y ago
    probably not the ones with the device failing documented by photos.
  - corty 6y ago
    Maybe. But a vendor not getting rid of such fake negatives (which is said to be easily possible) is at least a bad sign of apathy and neglect from the vendor. And since not buying is the safer choice anyways, the existence of fake negatives isn't that much of a problem.
    - sukilot 6y ago
      You prefer vendors who manipulate reviews over ones who focus on the product and service?
      - corty 6y ago
        I do prefer a vendor who gets rid of obvious fake reviews. As always, I can only hope they leave the legitimate ones alone. But in general, a vendor should at least read and handle reviews, leading immediately to a better product and service. Reviews are the simplest way for a customer to provide feedback. And some review hygiene, removing the fake ones, is also part of customer service, enabling the customer to get an objective impression.
  - stronglikedan 6y ago
    One-offs, maybe, but trends are less likely to be fake. For example, when buying a dryer, I looked at many 1-2 star reviews for each product to spot the problems that most people reported. Finally I found one where the only problem frequently reported was that the lint trap would snap in half after a couple of years, because of the plastic hinges. No other problems, and the replacement lint traps were easy to acquire, so I could live with that.
    - ebg13 6y ago
      > trends are less likely to be fake I understand why someone would think that, and I do it myself too, but do we have evidence that it's true?
- dazc 6y ago
  Noticed this myself when looking at a certain TV, all negative reviews were about a missing app which could be downloaded in 10 seconds.
puranjay 6y ago
In categories with little product differentiation - like supplements - I'll even avoid products with 4.5+ stars (unless I trust the brand). For some reason, all the products with fake reviews hang around the 4.4-4.7 rating mark. They're seldom 4-stars or lower
- sturgill 6y ago
  I love Amazon, but refuse to buy supplements from them at this point. Fraud via co-mingling is real, and I’d rather burn down my house from a crappy wire than ingest powder from an unvetted source. I went back to the old brick and mortar for my protein powder (though I’d also be willing to buy online from non-marketplace sources that take ownership of the supply chain). Again, I love Amazon. But if they refuse to take responsibility for whatever arrives at my house no way is it going into my mouth...
  - apple4ever 6y ago
    There are things I refuse to buy on Amazon. Anything ingestible is on that list. I tend to steer away from brands that clearly are just a small set up shop. Often times I will buy something from another website because I just trust that place more.
jasode 6y ago
> as a consumer I see a 4.9 rating as indistinguishable from a 0.9 rating. I've been an Amazon customer for more than 20 years. Yes, both the 5-star reviews and 1-star reviews can be gamed. Many 5-stars reviews are fake because of bribery. Many 1-star reviews are from competitors trying to hurt their rivals. That said, I still find Amazon reviews useful if I read the texts instead of depending on the number of stars. I go to the 3-star and 2-star reviews and read the specific complaints customers are writing about. Some reviewers also post useful photos. For example, I needed to buy a guest bed for COVID quarantine so I looked for "air mattress" on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=air+mattress https://www.amazon.com/s?k=air+mattress Most of those have 5-star reviews. I ignore that and simply read the texts. After digesting some reviews, I learn that all air mattresses regardless of brand suffer from leakage (usually after the 30-day return period). Some recommended getting a foldable foam mattress as an alternative to totally avoid the issues with leaks and broken air pumps. That's what I ended up buying and it was the Amazon reviews that steered me away from air mattresses.
- throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
  You can usually pick out fake reviews by the language. No human I've ever met would write about an 'excellent product' - that's the language of a marketeer. Also 5 star reviews can be honest and useful; examine the text for credibility then look at other reviews by the same person. If they're all 5 star then you most likely have a stinker, but some measured criticism and other, lower starred reviews may show validity.
  - xtiansimon 6y ago
    Hey! Marketers are people too. Haha. I worked in retail. Worked in marketing/graphic design. Worked as a cook for a few years. We called everything products. So how do you tell? IMHO, it’s not the word phrase, but the word count. If you’re saying too many ‘just nice’ things —repetitive — you prolly want something. Also, Amazon is frigging annoying about how much they ask you to comment. When And if I do it’s usually terse.
    - 6y ago
jfk13 6y ago
> Most Amazon users have to be feeling the same way at this point I wish that were true, but I'm afraid the vast bulk of consumers are still astonishingly unaware. People who discuss Amazon on HN are a tiny drop in a very large ocean.
- zeepzeep 6y ago
  True, why else would they pay you for a review?
o_____________o 6y ago
Shout out to this service and extension that helps a bit: https://www.fakespot.com/ https://www.fakespot.com/ An example product with adjusted ratings: https://www.fakespot.com/product/quickie-bulldozer-24-inch-multi-surface-push-broom-with-scraper https://www.fakespot.com/product/quickie-bulldozer-24-inch-m... > Our engine has profiled the reviewer patterns and has determined that there is high deception involved.
- abiogenesis 6y ago
  This site thinks that "71.2% of the reviews are reliable" for the product in the article (Fish Oil supplement).
amiga_500 6y ago
I went to purchase a replacement iphone audio jack adapter today and I felt totally unable to determine the best option. One vendor's adapter appeared about 6times in the first page of results and one of their reviews warned of fake reviews. No cheaper than elsewhere, Amazon is chaos now.

corty 6y ago

Reviews still have one purpose left: On a product I'm about to buy, I'll read a handfull of 2-star-reviews and look for frequent problems and failure modes of the product. If I find them convincing and relevant to my use case, I maybe refrain from buying. But other than that, reviews are at best useless or at worst criminally misleading.

christophilus 6y ago
Those are often fake, too, though.
- fock 6y ago
  probably not the ones with the device failing documented by photos.
- corty 6y ago
  Maybe. But a vendor not getting rid of such fake negatives (which is said to be easily possible) is at least a bad sign of apathy and neglect from the vendor. And since not buying is the safer choice anyways, the existence of fake negatives isn't that much of a problem.
  - sukilot 6y ago
    You prefer vendors who manipulate reviews over ones who focus on the product and service?
    - corty 6y ago
      I do prefer a vendor who gets rid of obvious fake reviews. As always, I can only hope they leave the legitimate ones alone. But in general, a vendor should at least read and handle reviews, leading immediately to a better product and service. Reviews are the simplest way for a customer to provide feedback. And some review hygiene, removing the fake ones, is also part of customer service, enabling the customer to get an objective impression.
- stronglikedan 6y ago
  One-offs, maybe, but trends are less likely to be fake. For example, when buying a dryer, I looked at many 1-2 star reviews for each product to spot the problems that most people reported. Finally I found one where the only problem frequently reported was that the lint trap would snap in half after a couple of years, because of the plastic hinges. No other problems, and the replacement lint traps were easy to acquire, so I could live with that.
  - ebg13 6y ago
    > trends are less likely to be fake I understand why someone would think that, and I do it myself too, but do we have evidence that it's true?
dazc 6y ago
Noticed this myself when looking at a certain TV, all negative reviews were about a missing app which could be downloaded in 10 seconds.

puranjay 6y ago

In categories with little product differentiation - like supplements - I'll even avoid products with 4.5+ stars (unless I trust the brand). For some reason, all the products with fake reviews hang around the 4.4-4.7 rating mark. They're seldom 4-stars or lower

sturgill 6y ago
I love Amazon, but refuse to buy supplements from them at this point. Fraud via co-mingling is real, and I’d rather burn down my house from a crappy wire than ingest powder from an unvetted source. I went back to the old brick and mortar for my protein powder (though I’d also be willing to buy online from non-marketplace sources that take ownership of the supply chain). Again, I love Amazon. But if they refuse to take responsibility for whatever arrives at my house no way is it going into my mouth...
- apple4ever 6y ago
  There are things I refuse to buy on Amazon. Anything ingestible is on that list. I tend to steer away from brands that clearly are just a small set up shop. Often times I will buy something from another website because I just trust that place more.

jasode 6y ago

> as a consumer I see a 4.9 rating as indistinguishable from a 0.9 rating. I've been an Amazon customer for more than 20 years. Yes, both the 5-star reviews and 1-star reviews can be gamed. Many 5-stars reviews are fake because of bribery. Many 1-star reviews are from competitors trying to hurt their rivals. That said, I still find Amazon reviews useful if I read the texts instead of depending on the number of stars. I go to the 3-star and 2-star reviews and read the specific complaints customers are writing about. Some reviewers also post useful photos. For example, I needed to buy a guest bed for COVID quarantine so I looked for "air mattress" on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=air+mattress https://www.amazon.com/s?k=air+mattress Most of those have 5-star reviews. I ignore that and simply read the texts. After digesting some reviews, I learn that all air mattresses regardless of brand suffer from leakage (usually after the 30-day return period). Some recommended getting a foldable foam mattress as an alternative to totally avoid the issues with leaks and broken air pumps. That's what I ended up buying and it was the Amazon reviews that steered me away from air mattresses.

throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
You can usually pick out fake reviews by the language. No human I've ever met would write about an 'excellent product' - that's the language of a marketeer. Also 5 star reviews can be honest and useful; examine the text for credibility then look at other reviews by the same person. If they're all 5 star then you most likely have a stinker, but some measured criticism and other, lower starred reviews may show validity.
- xtiansimon 6y ago
  Hey! Marketers are people too. Haha. I worked in retail. Worked in marketing/graphic design. Worked as a cook for a few years. We called everything products. So how do you tell? IMHO, it’s not the word phrase, but the word count. If you’re saying too many ‘just nice’ things —repetitive — you prolly want something. Also, Amazon is frigging annoying about how much they ask you to comment. When And if I do it’s usually terse.
  - 6y ago

jfk13 6y ago

> Most Amazon users have to be feeling the same way at this point I wish that were true, but I'm afraid the vast bulk of consumers are still astonishingly unaware. People who discuss Amazon on HN are a tiny drop in a very large ocean.

zeepzeep 6y ago
True, why else would they pay you for a review?

o_____________o 6y ago

Shout out to this service and extension that helps a bit: https://www.fakespot.com/ https://www.fakespot.com/ An example product with adjusted ratings: https://www.fakespot.com/product/quickie-bulldozer-24-inch-multi-surface-push-broom-with-scraper https://www.fakespot.com/product/quickie-bulldozer-24-inch-m... > Our engine has profiled the reviewer patterns and has determined that there is high deception involved.

abiogenesis 6y ago
This site thinks that "71.2% of the reviews are reliable" for the product in the article (Fish Oil supplement).

amiga_500 6y ago

I went to purchase a replacement iphone audio jack adapter today and I felt totally unable to determine the best option. One vendor's adapter appeared about 6times in the first page of results and one of their reviews warned of fake reviews. No cheaper than elsewhere, Amazon is chaos now.