9 ms·

A friend of mine is in a facebook group that has lists of products you can buy, then 4/5-star review and get your money back. We're talking 10-100€ products. H

A friend of mine is in a facebook group that has lists of products you can buy, then 4/5-star review and get your money back. We're talking 10-100€ products. He goes as far as reviewing everything he doesn't buy there with less than 3 stars so his account isn't suspicious. Doing this he completely destroys what reviews are meant to be, not only helping shady companies but also hurting legit ones.

luckylion 6y ago
And unfortunately, Amazon has little incentive to stop that. They don't care whether you buy product A or product B as long as you buy them on Amazon. Given that people compare ratings on their platform, it's a safe bet that they'll buy there whatever they decide on. The official Vine club hands out 5s on a suspicious scale as well - and even though the reviewers are marked by the little Vine badge, it looks more like a verification check mark than an ad disclosure, likely boosting the signal instead of dampening it.
- Nasrudith 6y ago
  I'll bite - how does incentive have anything to do with a task that is essentially impossible to stop at large? There will always be someone gaming it to boost sales and work around it. It seems a bit like complaining that a surgeon that does autopsies doesn't raise the dead.
  - corty 6y ago
    Amazon actively ignores reports such as the OPs, has corruption in its ranks and even has programs like Vine to generate overly positive reviews. Even if Amazon could not stop review crime, it could end its complicity in it and drastically reduce it. This doesn't happen because a) it costs money and b) it might reduce sales. Incentives are very clear and relevant in this situation.
nkozyra 6y ago
That ship has sailed, in my opinion. Reviews - particularly on Amazon - are meaningless. The cat-and-mouse game has gone so far that as a consumer I see a 4.9 rating as indistinguishable from a 0.9 rating. Buying from an unknown brand is a crapshoot. Buying from a known brand on Amazon isn't much better. And it makes me wonder how long these black hat practices are going to be useful to sellers. Most Amazon users have to be feeling the same way at this point.
- corty 6y ago
  Reviews still have one purpose left: On a product I'm about to buy, I'll read a handfull of 2-star-reviews and look for frequent problems and failure modes of the product. If I find them convincing and relevant to my use case, I maybe refrain from buying. But other than that, reviews are at best useless or at worst criminally misleading.
  - christophilus 6y ago
    Those are often fake, too, though.
    - fock 6y ago
      probably not the ones with the device failing documented by photos.
    - corty 6y ago
      Maybe. But a vendor not getting rid of such fake negatives (which is said to be easily possible) is at least a bad sign of apathy and neglect from the vendor. And since not buying is the safer choice anyways, the existence of fake negatives isn't that much of a problem.
      - sukilot 6y ago
        You prefer vendors who manipulate reviews over ones who focus on the product and service?
ycombinete 6y ago
That’s despicable. That behaviour must surely adjust your perception of their character.
- bzb4 6y ago
  I’ve done it too, you get lots of free stuff in exchange for writing reviews. One would be stupid not to take advantage of that.
  - jfk13 6y ago
    So you get free stuff, and you poison the environment of reviews for the rest of us. I wish we could figure out some incentive for people -- both individually and corporately -- to behave less selfishly, but it seems to be a hard problem.
    - bzb4 6y ago
      It’s practically Darwinism—ignore reviews, or suffer.
      - ebg13 6y ago
        Another name for it is being maliciously or callously antisocial. I wish fewer people desired to tear apart the social fabric for short term personal gain. A world where people could trust each other would be a better world for everyone including you.
dasudasu 6y ago
I came across one of those kickback-for-5-star-reviews thing once. There is absolutely no way to report it to Amazon even with proof.
- sturgill 6y ago
  Even worse, I once had a terrible experience with a product. Arrived beat to hell and very clearly just a cheap product. I left a review (maybe my third review ever?) and it was removed. You can pay for good reviews, but legitimate complaints might be removed.
Chris2048 6y ago
> Doing this he completely destroys what reviews are meant to be TBH, I think reviews, more than code, wants to be free. Amazon do a fine service providing a platform for product reviews, but I worry all this data now belongs to a private biased entity. Open reviews, anyone?
KorematsuFred 6y ago
That is why I think AmazonBasics, Amazon fulfilled and Amazon whitelists are getting incredibly popular. (I am a Costco shopper for similar reason. Only if a similar product is not available on Costco I go to Amazon).
- benrbray 6y ago
  AmazonBasics is no better, they just slap the Amazon brand onto cheaply manufactured goods with no quality control. For instance, the sponsored AmazonBasics cable for the search "USB to USB C" [1] is an extreme fire hazard due to non-compliance with the USB-C spec, as demonstrated by some reviewers. [1] https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-Type-C-USB-Male-Cable/dp/B01GGKYN0A/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=usb%2Bto%2Busb%2Bc&qid=1597789218&refinements=p_89%3AAmazonBasics&rnid=2528832011&s=electronics&sr=1-1&th=1 https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-Type-C-USB-Male-Cable/dp...
  - DangitBobby 6y ago
    My Amazon Basics HDMI cables from years ago are the only HDMI cables I've ever had that went bad
giarc 6y ago
There was a post on HN awhile back that was a blog post by a lady that was involved. She got into it thinking it would be good to make some money but she ended up with so much crap that she couldn't give it away (or sell it). EDIT Here is the article https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/nicolenguyen/her-amazon-purchases-are-real-the-reviews-are-fake https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/nicolenguyen/her-amazon... And the corresponding HN discussion https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21593480 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21593480

luckylion 6y ago

And unfortunately, Amazon has little incentive to stop that. They don't care whether you buy product A or product B as long as you buy them on Amazon. Given that people compare ratings on their platform, it's a safe bet that they'll buy there whatever they decide on. The official Vine club hands out 5s on a suspicious scale as well - and even though the reviewers are marked by the little Vine badge, it looks more like a verification check mark than an ad disclosure, likely boosting the signal instead of dampening it.

Nasrudith 6y ago
I'll bite - how does incentive have anything to do with a task that is essentially impossible to stop at large? There will always be someone gaming it to boost sales and work around it. It seems a bit like complaining that a surgeon that does autopsies doesn't raise the dead.
- corty 6y ago
  Amazon actively ignores reports such as the OPs, has corruption in its ranks and even has programs like Vine to generate overly positive reviews. Even if Amazon could not stop review crime, it could end its complicity in it and drastically reduce it. This doesn't happen because a) it costs money and b) it might reduce sales. Incentives are very clear and relevant in this situation.

nkozyra 6y ago

That ship has sailed, in my opinion. Reviews - particularly on Amazon - are meaningless. The cat-and-mouse game has gone so far that as a consumer I see a 4.9 rating as indistinguishable from a 0.9 rating. Buying from an unknown brand is a crapshoot. Buying from a known brand on Amazon isn't much better. And it makes me wonder how long these black hat practices are going to be useful to sellers. Most Amazon users have to be feeling the same way at this point.

corty 6y ago
Reviews still have one purpose left: On a product I'm about to buy, I'll read a handfull of 2-star-reviews and look for frequent problems and failure modes of the product. If I find them convincing and relevant to my use case, I maybe refrain from buying. But other than that, reviews are at best useless or at worst criminally misleading.
- christophilus 6y ago
  Those are often fake, too, though.
  - fock 6y ago
    probably not the ones with the device failing documented by photos.
  - corty 6y ago
    Maybe. But a vendor not getting rid of such fake negatives (which is said to be easily possible) is at least a bad sign of apathy and neglect from the vendor. And since not buying is the safer choice anyways, the existence of fake negatives isn't that much of a problem.
    - sukilot 6y ago
      You prefer vendors who manipulate reviews over ones who focus on the product and service?

ycombinete 6y ago

That’s despicable. That behaviour must surely adjust your perception of their character.

bzb4 6y ago
I’ve done it too, you get lots of free stuff in exchange for writing reviews. One would be stupid not to take advantage of that.
- jfk13 6y ago
  So you get free stuff, and you poison the environment of reviews for the rest of us. I wish we could figure out some incentive for people -- both individually and corporately -- to behave less selfishly, but it seems to be a hard problem.
  - bzb4 6y ago
    It’s practically Darwinism—ignore reviews, or suffer.
    - ebg13 6y ago
      Another name for it is being maliciously or callously antisocial. I wish fewer people desired to tear apart the social fabric for short term personal gain. A world where people could trust each other would be a better world for everyone including you.

dasudasu 6y ago

I came across one of those kickback-for-5-star-reviews thing once. There is absolutely no way to report it to Amazon even with proof.

sturgill 6y ago
Even worse, I once had a terrible experience with a product. Arrived beat to hell and very clearly just a cheap product. I left a review (maybe my third review ever?) and it was removed. You can pay for good reviews, but legitimate complaints might be removed.

Chris2048 6y ago

> Doing this he completely destroys what reviews are meant to be TBH, I think reviews, more than code, wants to be free. Amazon do a fine service providing a platform for product reviews, but I worry all this data now belongs to a private biased entity. Open reviews, anyone?

KorematsuFred 6y ago

That is why I think AmazonBasics, Amazon fulfilled and Amazon whitelists are getting incredibly popular. (I am a Costco shopper for similar reason. Only if a similar product is not available on Costco I go to Amazon).

benrbray 6y ago
AmazonBasics is no better, they just slap the Amazon brand onto cheaply manufactured goods with no quality control. For instance, the sponsored AmazonBasics cable for the search "USB to USB C" [1] is an extreme fire hazard due to non-compliance with the USB-C spec, as demonstrated by some reviewers. [1] https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-Type-C-USB-Male-Cable/dp/B01GGKYN0A/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=usb%2Bto%2Busb%2Bc&qid=1597789218&refinements=p_89%3AAmazonBasics&rnid=2528832011&s=electronics&sr=1-1&th=1 https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-Type-C-USB-Male-Cable/dp...
- DangitBobby 6y ago
  My Amazon Basics HDMI cables from years ago are the only HDMI cables I've ever had that went bad

giarc 6y ago

There was a post on HN awhile back that was a blog post by a lady that was involved. She got into it thinking it would be good to make some money but she ended up with so much crap that she couldn't give it away (or sell it). EDIT Here is the article https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/nicolenguyen/her-amazon-purchases-are-real-the-reviews-are-fake https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/nicolenguyen/her-amazon... And the corresponding HN discussion https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21593480 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21593480