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Really questioning this. The things available in vanilla js, html5 and css3 are immensely powerful and extremely well documented for those who care to dig into

Really questioning this. The things available in vanilla js, html5 and css3 are immensely powerful and extremely well documented for those who care to dig into it

noahtallen 6y ago
Since those are even more popular than React (given that React builds on top of that foundation), the point about using a popular tool for good ecosystem and documentation still holds for me.
koonsolo 6y ago
You are correct that those have a pretty good interface. But here is some advice from an old programmer: once you start making bigger and more complex projects, you will start to make your own convenience libraries. And soon you will realize that you've built your own React-like library. But only less stable and less well thought out, because react has the huge community and maturity. But if you only do some small functionality, or something specific with the technology, vanilla is perfectly fine. However, if you are a single page app coder, I would definitely go for something like React.
- rimliu 6y ago
  Not everything has to be built with React, and the size of it is orthoganal to the technology. If fact, huge projects are likely to suffer from using React, because virtual DOMs get out of hand and a lot of resources a wasted by building and rebuilding VDOM and looking for the changes. Also, for some reason, React brings a lot of cargo-culting. Many don't stop to thing whether they should even if they can. They bring React, then they bring Redux, then all the rest is being dragged in and you get multi MB bundles for some truly trivial purposes. Of course, that's more on developers than on React, but it happens way to often. And for some reason just bringing React and Co. is not enough, it usually ends up in some imressive architecture astronautics. At the end you have a project that is big, but slow and still impossible to understand because the levels of indirection are off the charts.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - varrock 6y ago
    I'm not going to say you're wrong, because I don't have claim to back mine up, either. So, this is for the sake of discussion. The sentiment that everybody reaches for Redux is tired, in my opinion. After following many in the web development community and keeping up with online forums such as this, it's fairly clear to me that people have moved on from the heavy armor previously associated with React if they have a choice. For instance, people learned that they were using Redux for prop drilling, which led to many switching over to the context API natively from React. Another good example is Gatsby, for those who realized they have a static site and would like to address the SEO issues associated with a SPA. Also, a lot of times, companies adopted React and Redux before the inception of these new, more powerful libraries that are obvious choices on the ground as of August 2020. But, have fun refactoring your entire client side state seamlessly if you're tracking state more sophisticated than the status of the application sidebar.
  - koonsolo 6y ago
    So what do you suggest how huge projects should display data on a single page web app? MVC? MVVM? Just hack things in like the olden days, without any structure?
hombre_fatal 6y ago
Which part of their post do you think you're questioning?
- sushshshsh 6y ago
  I'm questioning, at least for my purposes, the following: 1) That React is a powerful, productive, ergonomic language 2) That high quality resources exist for using it I have struggled with both of these in React, yet in vanilla JS and html canvas I have no problem writing a 3d graphics engine lol
  - bryanrasmussen 6y ago
    I would think writing a 3d graphics engine is not really the use case for React.
    - sushshshsh 6y ago
      I'm remarking more on the complexity of the functionality in question when compared to the learning curve of the api that i use to implement it
      - bryanrasmussen 6y ago
        fair enough - I thought you were saying that you tried to implement a 3d graphics api in React and without React and the React one was much more difficult and I felt: that was as to be expected.

Really questioning this. The things available in vanilla js, html5 and css3 are immensely powerful and extremely well documented for those who care to dig into it

noahtallen 6y ago

Since those are even more popular than React (given that React builds on top of that foundation), the point about using a popular tool for good ecosystem and documentation still holds for me.

koonsolo 6y ago

You are correct that those have a pretty good interface. But here is some advice from an old programmer: once you start making bigger and more complex projects, you will start to make your own convenience libraries. And soon you will realize that you've built your own React-like library. But only less stable and less well thought out, because react has the huge community and maturity. But if you only do some small functionality, or something specific with the technology, vanilla is perfectly fine. However, if you are a single page app coder, I would definitely go for something like React.

rimliu 6y ago
Not everything has to be built with React, and the size of it is orthoganal to the technology. If fact, huge projects are likely to suffer from using React, because virtual DOMs get out of hand and a lot of resources a wasted by building and rebuilding VDOM and looking for the changes. Also, for some reason, React brings a lot of cargo-culting. Many don't stop to thing whether they should even if they can. They bring React, then they bring Redux, then all the rest is being dragged in and you get multi MB bundles for some truly trivial purposes. Of course, that's more on developers than on React, but it happens way to often. And for some reason just bringing React and Co. is not enough, it usually ends up in some imressive architecture astronautics. At the end you have a project that is big, but slow and still impossible to understand because the levels of indirection are off the charts.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- varrock 6y ago
  I'm not going to say you're wrong, because I don't have claim to back mine up, either. So, this is for the sake of discussion. The sentiment that everybody reaches for Redux is tired, in my opinion. After following many in the web development community and keeping up with online forums such as this, it's fairly clear to me that people have moved on from the heavy armor previously associated with React if they have a choice. For instance, people learned that they were using Redux for prop drilling, which led to many switching over to the context API natively from React. Another good example is Gatsby, for those who realized they have a static site and would like to address the SEO issues associated with a SPA. Also, a lot of times, companies adopted React and Redux before the inception of these new, more powerful libraries that are obvious choices on the ground as of August 2020. But, have fun refactoring your entire client side state seamlessly if you're tracking state more sophisticated than the status of the application sidebar.
- koonsolo 6y ago
  So what do you suggest how huge projects should display data on a single page web app? MVC? MVVM? Just hack things in like the olden days, without any structure?

hombre_fatal 6y ago

Which part of their post do you think you're questioning?

sushshshsh 6y ago
I'm questioning, at least for my purposes, the following: 1) That React is a powerful, productive, ergonomic language 2) That high quality resources exist for using it I have struggled with both of these in React, yet in vanilla JS and html canvas I have no problem writing a 3d graphics engine lol
- bryanrasmussen 6y ago
  I would think writing a 3d graphics engine is not really the use case for React.
  - sushshshsh 6y ago
    I'm remarking more on the complexity of the functionality in question when compared to the learning curve of the api that i use to implement it
    - bryanrasmussen 6y ago
      fair enough - I thought you were saying that you tried to implement a 3d graphics api in React and without React and the React one was much more difficult and I felt: that was as to be expected.