3 ms·

Smooth teleoperator: The rise of the remote controller

19 points by thedrbrian 6y ago

blakesterz 6y ago
When an interviewer pressed Postmates VP Ali Kashani last year on whether the company’s use of teleoperation technology was an “admission” that AI alone can’t solve all of the challenges its robots encounter on sidewalks, Kashani swiftly retorted: “That’s a strategy, not an admission.” That's a smooth answer! I didn't know what 'teleoperation' meant, it just means those bots are being operated remotely, at least partially. Somehow I've not seen that term before. "Operators can use the software to monitor fleets or draw a path for a robot to follow. When necessary, they can even take over and control the vehicle directly."
jam 6y ago
Our company [1] works with a large number of autonomous robotics companies of varying scales, tasks, and morphologies. Teleoperation is a regular part of the workflow for many. It is an exceptionally good time to be building specialized hardware & autonomy systems for a task and then providing that system as a service to customers. This article went into a few examples, but by our count there are ~800-1000 companies currently operating with this model. Happy to answer any questions about how people doing this deal with the myriad of issues (both business and technological). It’s a fairly new thing, but extremely well suited to the future. [1] https://formant.io https://formant.io
- petra 6y ago
  Thank you. One of the possibilities of teleoperation, labor arbitrage to low-cost countries, and a response by regulators, to protect the local labor force and only allow them to run remotely operated jobs. Does it still makes ecojomic sense to use teleoperation extensively in this case ? Are there any new efficiencies besides in-country wage differences ? Could this really become a big job category in the future ?
  - jam 6y ago
    It's important to keep in mind that teleoperation is always paired with an (initially quite immature) autonomy system. Just as blakesterz called out in the sibling comment, the strategy here is to start with high volume of teleoperation and then scale up autonomy over time, essentially increasing the productive output of one teleoperator. We see companies all across the board, from 1:1 (or even multiple people always watching at once) to over 1:100 in operator / robot ratio. In practical terms, this usually takes the form of operators being notified of situations that they have to resolve, and switching between systems frequently. Once you're above a certain level of productivity, the cost of the teleoperator is negligible... so it doesn't really matter where you locate the labor as long as you have a reasonable path to reaching a high ratio using autonomy. Fortunately, getting robots out in the world lets you gather the data needed to improve your autonomy system, and so it's worth it to get out there early as long as it's safe.
petra 6y ago
The reality, regarding jobs, about all of this: jobs will be outsourced to countries with cheaper labor. It's already happening: kiwibots, which runs teleoperated delivery robots, is using drivers from Colombia, for $2/hour.
- emteycz 6y ago
  That's awesome! You can do it from home, too.
- liability 6y ago
  Legislation requiring companies to pay remote workers at least the minimum wage of the location the remotely operated machine is located in seems like a good idea. When operating machines in California workers should be paid the Californian minimum wage. Companies that refuse should be denied the opportunity to operate in California.
  - jam 6y ago
    I'd be interested in how you'd propose to make that work when operators may be jumping in to a robot anywhere on the planet from one minute to the next. Require logging and reporting on when remote labor was used to support the tax jurisdiction you're operating in? It seems that would also require reporting to every locality you operate robots in individually, which is currently not necessary. Would you propose to use the same method for other remote services such as call center support?
    - liability 6y ago
      That would be a problem for these companies to figure. > It seems that would also require reporting to every locality you operate robots in individually Yes, exactly. That should be required. Also your call center idea is pretty good too, though I think not quite as clear cut as having remote laborers use robotic bodies to circumvent minimum wage laws.
      - jam 6y ago

19 points by thedrbrian 6y ago

When an interviewer pressed Postmates VP Ali Kashani last year on whether the company’s use of teleoperation technology was an “admission” that AI alone can’t solve all of the challenges its robots encounter on sidewalks, Kashani swiftly retorted: “That’s a strategy, not an admission.” That's a smooth answer! I didn't know what 'teleoperation' meant, it just means those bots are being operated remotely, at least partially. Somehow I've not seen that term before. "Operators can use the software to monitor fleets or draw a path for a robot to follow. When necessary, they can even take over and control the vehicle directly."

jam 6y ago

Our company [1] works with a large number of autonomous robotics companies of varying scales, tasks, and morphologies. Teleoperation is a regular part of the workflow for many. It is an exceptionally good time to be building specialized hardware & autonomy systems for a task and then providing that system as a service to customers. This article went into a few examples, but by our count there are ~800-1000 companies currently operating with this model. Happy to answer any questions about how people doing this deal with the myriad of issues (both business and technological). It’s a fairly new thing, but extremely well suited to the future. [1] https://formant.io https://formant.io

petra 6y ago
Thank you. One of the possibilities of teleoperation, labor arbitrage to low-cost countries, and a response by regulators, to protect the local labor force and only allow them to run remotely operated jobs. Does it still makes ecojomic sense to use teleoperation extensively in this case ? Are there any new efficiencies besides in-country wage differences ? Could this really become a big job category in the future ?
- jam 6y ago
  It's important to keep in mind that teleoperation is always paired with an (initially quite immature) autonomy system. Just as blakesterz called out in the sibling comment, the strategy here is to start with high volume of teleoperation and then scale up autonomy over time, essentially increasing the productive output of one teleoperator. We see companies all across the board, from 1:1 (or even multiple people always watching at once) to over 1:100 in operator / robot ratio. In practical terms, this usually takes the form of operators being notified of situations that they have to resolve, and switching between systems frequently. Once you're above a certain level of productivity, the cost of the teleoperator is negligible... so it doesn't really matter where you locate the labor as long as you have a reasonable path to reaching a high ratio using autonomy. Fortunately, getting robots out in the world lets you gather the data needed to improve your autonomy system, and so it's worth it to get out there early as long as it's safe.

petra 6y ago

The reality, regarding jobs, about all of this: jobs will be outsourced to countries with cheaper labor. It's already happening: kiwibots, which runs teleoperated delivery robots, is using drivers from Colombia, for $2/hour.

emteycz 6y ago
That's awesome! You can do it from home, too.
liability 6y ago
Legislation requiring companies to pay remote workers at least the minimum wage of the location the remotely operated machine is located in seems like a good idea. When operating machines in California workers should be paid the Californian minimum wage. Companies that refuse should be denied the opportunity to operate in California.
- jam 6y ago
  I'd be interested in how you'd propose to make that work when operators may be jumping in to a robot anywhere on the planet from one minute to the next. Require logging and reporting on when remote labor was used to support the tax jurisdiction you're operating in? It seems that would also require reporting to every locality you operate robots in individually, which is currently not necessary. Would you propose to use the same method for other remote services such as call center support?
  - liability 6y ago
    That would be a problem for these companies to figure. > It seems that would also require reporting to every locality you operate robots in individually Yes, exactly. That should be required. Also your call center idea is pretty good too, though I think not quite as clear cut as having remote laborers use robotic bodies to circumvent minimum wage laws.
    - jam 6y ago