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I trust the device maker more than myself to keep my data safe and secure.
by enos_feedler 6y ago
I trust the device maker more than myself to keep my data safe and secure.
- CamperBob2 6y agoThen don't install unsigned apps. The notion that the platform owner is somehow doing you a favor by denying you that choice is nothing but a manifestation of Stockholm Syndrome in action.
- gruez 6y agoThat advice might be feasible for the average HN reader, but what about the average person? How resistant do you think they will be against a social engineering attack telling them to disable code signing?
- chillacy 6y agoSome sites have big scary warnings if you try to open the dev console in the page for this reason. I don't know how well that works though. We can put all the warnings on bleach we want, someone out there is still going to drink it.
- heavyset_go 6y ago> We can put all the warnings on bleach we want, someone out there is still going to drink it. If we went with the Apple solution, this means nobody gets to use bleach.
- grishka 6y agoSo let them install that malware and have their data stolen despite all warnings because they deserve it? We can't have safety nets everywhere, and we, in fact, don't. We allow everyone to drive, use knives and handle all kinds of potentially dangerous stuff every day, but for some reason can't trust them with their own phones. Some mistakes are costly, but people learn from them. Such is life.
- gruez 6y ago>We allow everyone to drive, use knives and handle all kinds of potentially dangerous stuff every day, but for some reason can't trust them with their own phones. Can you get social engineered into crashing a car or stabbing yourself? The difference here is that people most likely know the consequences of their actions, unlike with phones/computers where the consequences are nebulous.
- grishka 6y ago> unlike with phones/computers where the consequences are nebulous. So maybe they need to be educated on that? Or just, in general, to think critically at all times? > Can you get social engineered into crashing a car or stabbing yourself? There were cases of people "social engineered" into wearing bomb belts and blowing themselves up. It's just that this social engineering was much more sophisticated than telling someone to send bitcoin to have it doubled.
- ernst_klim 6y ago> We allow everyone to drive, use knives Ah, these are pretty simple things. We don't allow to sell any drugs, or some drugs without prescription, because drugs are hard and require education. So do computers.
- sudosysgen 6y agoThe risk coming from malware to end users on laptops is about 0.1% of the risk from cars, and following the message in scary red letters is pretty simple too.
- ernst_klim 6y ago> Then don't install unsigned apps. The problem is that most people know nothing about software distribution, signatures etc etc, and would become an easy target for fishers, as they do on Windows or Android. People oft underestimate how little avg user knows about computers and basic hygiene.
- CamperBob2 6y agoThe problem is that most people know nothing about software distribution, signatures etc etc, and would become an easy target for fishers That doesn't sound like my problem, or, frankly, yours. If you create an environment where careless people never experience the consequences of their carelessness, then rest assured, you won't get fewer careless people or less careless behavior as a result. You will get more of both. You will have bred a culture of dependency... which is certainly financially convenient for Apple.
- ernst_klim 6y ago> careless people They are not careless, they are uneducated on topic. Are you advocating for finishing FDA and drug regulation, because if people bought wrong drugs, it's their carelessness and consequences are just? That's nonsense. Historian should not know much about computers, just like me, a computer guy, should not know much about drugs. If there is a company allowing safe computing, which Apple is, people are better to stick with it, and you are better choosing linux or something and stop advocating for reducing people's choice.
- neop1x 6y agoAnti-phishing and malware mechanisms should just be "recommendations" to users and not straight blocking and banning. It's sad people don't see that difference. Browsers warn you about potentially harmful websites but still give you the choice.
- ernst_klim 6y ago> malware mechanisms should just be "recommendations" Not when people don't thoroughly understand the possible consequences, no. Same as why drug prescriptions are not just recommended, and driving license is not optional. It's either the enforcement of training, or the walled garden.
- grishka 6y agoIt's usually better to have a choice than to not have it. It's the same argumentation as with a headphone jack in phones.
- lenkite 6y agoSafety over Liberty - the motto of the world today. Kneel before the master!
- userbinator 6y agoI wonder what Franklin would think if he was alive today...
- ceejayoz 6y agoProbably something along the lines of "I said essential liberty for temporary safety, you nitwits." https://www.npr.org/2015/03/02/390245038/ben-franklins-famous-liberty-safety-quote-lost-its-context-in-21st-century https://www.npr.org/2015/03/02/390245038/ben-franklins-famou...
- ceejayoz 6y agoShould we not have the liberty to choose a locked-down platform?
- throwaway2048 6y agoShould you have the liberty to sell yourself into slavery?
- ceejayoz 6y agoChoosing iOS is an entirely reversible decision.
- lenkite 6y agoWhen 99% of the mobile space is locked-down that is a spurious argument. Locked-down platforms will never be a rarity.
- kbutler 6y agoDo you then agree with the decision to prevent installation of Fortnite or any other software from which Apple wants to extract more revenue? Because Apple has shown that they will use that mechanism to exert commercial control, not just to secure your data.
- enos_feedler 6y agoApple is the curator of the product. They can do what they want. Maybe at some point I won't buy it. But totally agree they have every right to do this.
- kbutler 6y agoIs John Deere the curator of the "tractor" product, so they have every right to determine who can repair it? Is Chamberlain the curator of the garage door opener product, so they can determine what remotes can be used? You may prefer a world where DRM and the DMCA can be leveraged beyond preventing copying to constrain consumer choice, but I consider that a poorer and less innovative world. https://www.eff.org/wp/unintended-consequences-under-dmca/archive https://www.eff.org/wp/unintended-consequences-under-dmca/ar...
- enos_feedler 6y agoGreat, there is a phone for you. It's based on Android.
- kbutler 6y agoWhat would my freedom to step outside the walled garden on my iOS device take away from your curated experience?