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I hear ya, but something smells real bad about how Epic decided to wage this war. They were clearly picking this fight, now I am not sure that was such a good i

by quotha 6y ago

I hear ya, but something smells real bad about how Epic decided to wage this war. They were clearly picking this fight, now I am not sure that was such a good idea.

chillacy 6y ago
It's not dissimilar to how civil disobedience in the 60s thoroughly planned and tuned for maximum PR impact. Rosa Parks went on that bus knowing she'd make a scene. Does that change the reality being uncovered?
- quotha 6y ago
  Really? Sorry, that is not what I think of at all regarding this situation.
  - chillacy 6y ago
    Maybe elaborate your comment further to prevent confusion? When you commented >"I hear ya, but something smells real bad about how Epic decided to wage this war" I read it as "I agree that the situation is unfair but I disagree with how they decided to uncover it because it was deliberate".
    - quotha 6y ago
      Yes exactly, I don’t know how much effort they put in to just discussing it with Apple, but it is clear they planned this out and that’s why I don’t like about it. And their plan seems a bit melodramatic to me.
      - chillacy 6y ago
        Okay and do you think that there's an analogy with Rosa Parks who also intentionally broke the law to highlight how it was unfair? There are a number of facets in common here: 1. What is legal is not necessarily what is right. 2. You can intentionally break a rule/law and then use the press to highlight your case. Maybe you would disagree with Rosa Parks and the civil rights movement's methods as well, and that's fine, certainly many people did disagree at the time (more then than now though). I'm just pointing out that there are parallels in history for this kind of intentional rule-breaking and subsequent PR campaign.
- breakfastduck 6y ago
  I dont think a massive company like Epic with all the bad practices they've implemented themselves suing another mega rich company is anything like Rosa Parks getting on that bus, though. Intentions are important considerations with something like this.
  - chillacy 6y ago
    The part which OP disagreed with was the intentionality, and I likened it to another example where the disobedience was deliberate. Of course with any analogy other factors will be dissimilar. It's interesting you point out the bad practices they have themselves as being important though. The civil rights movement in the 60s boosted Rosa Parks above Claudette Colvin even though they both could have had similar legal battles only because of optics: > For many years, Montgomery's black leaders did not publicize Colvin's pioneering effort. She was an unmarried teenager at the time, and was reportedly impregnated by a married man Epic certainly shouldn't get to score virtue points here, but we shouldn't require someone to be a saint to point out unfairness.
  - strbean 6y ago
    Agreed that Epic is no stranger to corporate shittiness. I think the parent's point is that somebody looking for a fight is how lots of unjust practices are ended. Complaining that Epic went into this trying to start a legal battle, and is making a PR push, is kind of looking a gift horse in the mouth imho.
- FriendlyNormie 6y ago
  Hahahahaha. How high on your own farts are you that you compared Epic to Rosa Parks. You are out of your fucking mind. Epic are greedy pricks and deserve to be annihilated. Apple should really drive the message home this time and spend some of that war chest money to assassinate Epic’s CEO in minecraft.
colinmhayes 6y ago
Epic's goal of creating a competing app store would be a huge boon for consumers. Obviously they picked this fight, and I'm happy they did, because if they're successful app prices will come down due to the reduced fees markets provide.
- benologist 6y ago
  It will all make sense when we can have F-Droid and GOG instead of $8/week guitar tuners.
zamalek 6y ago
It's impossible to truly know their motives (although money is the most likely candidate). I usually judge these things on a personal/consumer level: "Who is fighting for the consumer?" Epic. It doesn't matter their motives. Apple is aggressively anticonsumer and it's time someone took them on. They keep handing out concessions for big players, while hurting newcomers. It's time for it to stop.
- AlexandrB 6y ago
  > "Who is fighting for the consumer?" Epic. It doesn't matter their motives. Epic is using their customers as pawns in a contract dispute with a platform vendor (Apple). How else do you explain that console customers got the full 20% discount on "V-bucks" despite Sony/Microsoft still taking their 30% cut? Epic is basically selling V-bucks at a premium on iOS if you choose not to give Epic your credit card information. This is not a pro-consumer stance, it's a pro-Epic stance.
  - FrozenSynapse 6y ago
    Apple should start allowing side app stores. I hope this is what comes out of this battle
    - theshrike79 6y ago
      How could a normal Joe User know which side app stores are reliable and which will sell your info and credit card number to the highest bidder?
      - zamalek 6y ago
        How could a normal Joe User know which websites [...] No amount of technology can stand between a user and seeing dancing hamsters.

by quotha 6y ago

I hear ya, but something smells real bad about how Epic decided to wage this war. They were clearly picking this fight, now I am not sure that was such a good idea.

chillacy 6y ago

It's not dissimilar to how civil disobedience in the 60s thoroughly planned and tuned for maximum PR impact. Rosa Parks went on that bus knowing she'd make a scene. Does that change the reality being uncovered?

quotha 6y ago
Really? Sorry, that is not what I think of at all regarding this situation.
- chillacy 6y ago
  Maybe elaborate your comment further to prevent confusion? When you commented >"I hear ya, but something smells real bad about how Epic decided to wage this war" I read it as "I agree that the situation is unfair but I disagree with how they decided to uncover it because it was deliberate".
  - quotha 6y ago
    Yes exactly, I don’t know how much effort they put in to just discussing it with Apple, but it is clear they planned this out and that’s why I don’t like about it. And their plan seems a bit melodramatic to me.
    - chillacy 6y ago
      Okay and do you think that there's an analogy with Rosa Parks who also intentionally broke the law to highlight how it was unfair? There are a number of facets in common here: 1. What is legal is not necessarily what is right. 2. You can intentionally break a rule/law and then use the press to highlight your case. Maybe you would disagree with Rosa Parks and the civil rights movement's methods as well, and that's fine, certainly many people did disagree at the time (more then than now though). I'm just pointing out that there are parallels in history for this kind of intentional rule-breaking and subsequent PR campaign.
breakfastduck 6y ago
I dont think a massive company like Epic with all the bad practices they've implemented themselves suing another mega rich company is anything like Rosa Parks getting on that bus, though. Intentions are important considerations with something like this.
- chillacy 6y ago
  The part which OP disagreed with was the intentionality, and I likened it to another example where the disobedience was deliberate. Of course with any analogy other factors will be dissimilar. It's interesting you point out the bad practices they have themselves as being important though. The civil rights movement in the 60s boosted Rosa Parks above Claudette Colvin even though they both could have had similar legal battles only because of optics: > For many years, Montgomery's black leaders did not publicize Colvin's pioneering effort. She was an unmarried teenager at the time, and was reportedly impregnated by a married man Epic certainly shouldn't get to score virtue points here, but we shouldn't require someone to be a saint to point out unfairness.
- strbean 6y ago
  Agreed that Epic is no stranger to corporate shittiness. I think the parent's point is that somebody looking for a fight is how lots of unjust practices are ended. Complaining that Epic went into this trying to start a legal battle, and is making a PR push, is kind of looking a gift horse in the mouth imho.
FriendlyNormie 6y ago
Hahahahaha. How high on your own farts are you that you compared Epic to Rosa Parks. You are out of your fucking mind. Epic are greedy pricks and deserve to be annihilated. Apple should really drive the message home this time and spend some of that war chest money to assassinate Epic’s CEO in minecraft.

colinmhayes 6y ago

Epic's goal of creating a competing app store would be a huge boon for consumers. Obviously they picked this fight, and I'm happy they did, because if they're successful app prices will come down due to the reduced fees markets provide.

benologist 6y ago
It will all make sense when we can have F-Droid and GOG instead of $8/week guitar tuners.

zamalek 6y ago

It's impossible to truly know their motives (although money is the most likely candidate). I usually judge these things on a personal/consumer level: "Who is fighting for the consumer?" Epic. It doesn't matter their motives. Apple is aggressively anticonsumer and it's time someone took them on. They keep handing out concessions for big players, while hurting newcomers. It's time for it to stop.

AlexandrB 6y ago
> "Who is fighting for the consumer?" Epic. It doesn't matter their motives. Epic is using their customers as pawns in a contract dispute with a platform vendor (Apple). How else do you explain that console customers got the full 20% discount on "V-bucks" despite Sony/Microsoft still taking their 30% cut? Epic is basically selling V-bucks at a premium on iOS if you choose not to give Epic your credit card information. This is not a pro-consumer stance, it's a pro-Epic stance.
- FrozenSynapse 6y ago
  Apple should start allowing side app stores. I hope this is what comes out of this battle
  - theshrike79 6y ago
    How could a normal Joe User know which side app stores are reliable and which will sell your info and credit card number to the highest bidder?
    - zamalek 6y ago
      How could a normal Joe User know which websites [...] No amount of technology can stand between a user and seeing dancing hamsters.