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Can you point out some of the traditional practices of meditation that have no roots in religious traditions? I can't think of any truly secular traditions of t

Can you point out some of the traditional practices of meditation that have no roots in religious traditions? I can't think of any truly secular traditions of the top of my head (or at least any that weren't invented in the last 50 years).

pmoriarty 6y ago
Neither I nor the post I was replying to limited meditation to traditional practices. Nor were we talking about the roots of meditation. Yes, the roots of meditation are in religious practices (as, are, arguably, the roots of every human activity). That doesn't mean that contemporary meditation practices are necessarily religious. Many aren't. So if you're talking about the term "meditation" in general (as we were), to limit it to a religious practice is a mistake. It's much broader than that, even if it derives ultimately from something that once had a religious aspect.
- zepto 6y ago
  I think this a fair point - meditation is not a single practice. It is a broad category. But it also means that we can’t claim that there is an evidence base for the positive effects of meditation, and more than we can for ‘medication’ or ‘food’. Meditation can be beneficial. Meditation can cause severe problems. Both are clearly true statements. The question is - what kinds of meditation are beneficial to whom? It’s worth noting that the Asian religious traditions had a history of being very selective about who was taught.
tgflynn 6y ago
One might argue that stoicism would be one such case, though I don't think it developed techniques anywhere near as sophisticated as those of Eastern traditions. As for Buddhism, which is at the root of what most people mean by "meditation" today, calling it a religion is a bit problematic because it doesn't involve worshiping gods and, in theory at least, is not supposed to be primarily faith based. Both of those things: god worship and faith seem so fundamental to the western concept of religion that applying that term uncritically to Buddhism seems ill-founded.
- thevardanian 6y ago
  Buddhism while not worshipping Gods, does not deny their existence, or rather a more familiar phrase would be deny the existence of "higher beings". So it is neither atheistic nor theistic.

pmoriarty 6y ago

Neither I nor the post I was replying to limited meditation to traditional practices. Nor were we talking about the roots of meditation. Yes, the roots of meditation are in religious practices (as, are, arguably, the roots of every human activity). That doesn't mean that contemporary meditation practices are necessarily religious. Many aren't. So if you're talking about the term "meditation" in general (as we were), to limit it to a religious practice is a mistake. It's much broader than that, even if it derives ultimately from something that once had a religious aspect.

zepto 6y ago
I think this a fair point - meditation is not a single practice. It is a broad category. But it also means that we can’t claim that there is an evidence base for the positive effects of meditation, and more than we can for ‘medication’ or ‘food’. Meditation can be beneficial. Meditation can cause severe problems. Both are clearly true statements. The question is - what kinds of meditation are beneficial to whom? It’s worth noting that the Asian religious traditions had a history of being very selective about who was taught.

tgflynn 6y ago

One might argue that stoicism would be one such case, though I don't think it developed techniques anywhere near as sophisticated as those of Eastern traditions. As for Buddhism, which is at the root of what most people mean by "meditation" today, calling it a religion is a bit problematic because it doesn't involve worshiping gods and, in theory at least, is not supposed to be primarily faith based. Both of those things: god worship and faith seem so fundamental to the western concept of religion that applying that term uncritically to Buddhism seems ill-founded.

thevardanian 6y ago
Buddhism while not worshipping Gods, does not deny their existence, or rather a more familiar phrase would be deny the existence of "higher beings". So it is neither atheistic nor theistic.