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Can confirm from personal experience. Even a lot of vipassana meditation by itself can send you into psychotic states when you're not ready for all the insight

by Mo3 6y ago

Can confirm from personal experience. Even a lot of vipassana meditation by itself can send you into psychotic states when you're not ready for all the insight yet. I came very close to psychosis once, experienced ego death, broke down mentally and had to spend 2 months in a depression ward. Cannot recommend. On the other hand, I met my now-wife in the depression ward, which in the "active" phase right before my admission I visualized and wished for quite often. I don't regret the 2-3 months of active ego dissolution phase, life has never been more beautiful and strangely peaceful and jarring at the same time. However, I did lose my job, my apartment and almost permanently lost my sanity as well, but now in hindsight it looks like it was all for the better. Nevertheless I don't think you should force something like this (like I very much did), the consequences to internal and external reality can be absolutely dramatic and I've preferred to live in peaceful ignorance since then... save for the short moments of.. remembering. Everything and nothing at once.

searchableguy 6y ago
I know few people who recommend mindfulness and meditation. It feels so pretentious and religion-like. Some people totally feel brainwashed. I had a friend who believed abuse would go away if you let it go and he was being abused for years. It's a common thing I found in my anecdotal group.
JesseMeyer 6y ago
Meditation is a blade with no hilt. I _accidentally_ fell into a vipassana state of mind after the first time trying a particular religious chant, seriously, from out of the pains of boredom as a 20 year old. At the time I lived nearby mountains, and after 'coming to', I saw them through the window. I cannot describe to you the overwhelming feeling of beauty and awe that crashed over me. It was as though this was the very first time I had ever seen mountains. I think the best description I can manage comes from 'Both Sides Now' by Joni Mitchell. 'I've looked at clouds from both sides now From up and down, and still somehow It's cloud illusions I recall I really don't know clouds at all' The experience was so disorienting. As if I was seeing the mountains for what they were directly through my senses and not mediated by my knowledge of what mountains were like, linguistically. It changed my entire life -- weeks later later I lost my job and fell into a 5 year extreme depression / anxiety spell in the attempt to reconcile my adolescent religious upbringing with the continued insight from that experience. Absolutely worthwhile, in hindsight, but it cost me near everything for it.
- chromatin 6y ago
  Great comment, although Judy Collins’ recording (which came first) is far better than Joni Mitchell’s :)
  - JesseMeyer 6y ago
    Ha, thanks for the history lesson. :)
  - mordechai9000 6y ago
    I agree, it's far better than her studio version. But Joni Mitchell wrote the song. There's a video on YouTube of her performing it live, and it sounds a lot like the Judy Collins version, strangely enough.
- charliemil4 6y ago
  How did you get out of the tailspin? It’s quite hard to “pull up” when there is nothing that feels grounded...
  - JesseMeyer 6y ago
    There was no pulling up. And there was no ground beneath my feet. Just an endless ocean with no points of reference by which to orient oneself. So the only course of action was not to search for rocks to cling to, but of learning how to swim, and dive in. As backwards as it may read, I only felt secure after having let go of myself. As odd as this description may sound to someone who has not experienced this, it is instantly recognizable to those who have -- which helped discover others who traversed this before. It so happens that Buddhists have a rich tradition for navigating these waters, which helped satisfy my intellectual curiosity of what was happening. To know that I was not 'defective' but merely in an initial stage of 'unlearning' was a big jolt of positively to my psychology.
    - charliemil4 6y ago
      Thank you for the amazing and thoughtful help - it feels like I need to go down for a long nap.

by Mo3 6y ago

searchableguy 6y ago

I know few people who recommend mindfulness and meditation. It feels so pretentious and religion-like. Some people totally feel brainwashed. I had a friend who believed abuse would go away if you let it go and he was being abused for years. It's a common thing I found in my anecdotal group.

JesseMeyer 6y ago

Meditation is a blade with no hilt. I _accidentally_ fell into a vipassana state of mind after the first time trying a particular religious chant, seriously, from out of the pains of boredom as a 20 year old. At the time I lived nearby mountains, and after 'coming to', I saw them through the window. I cannot describe to you the overwhelming feeling of beauty and awe that crashed over me. It was as though this was the very first time I had ever seen mountains. I think the best description I can manage comes from 'Both Sides Now' by Joni Mitchell. 'I've looked at clouds from both sides now From up and down, and still somehow It's cloud illusions I recall I really don't know clouds at all' The experience was so disorienting. As if I was seeing the mountains for what they were directly through my senses and not mediated by my knowledge of what mountains were like, linguistically. It changed my entire life -- weeks later later I lost my job and fell into a 5 year extreme depression / anxiety spell in the attempt to reconcile my adolescent religious upbringing with the continued insight from that experience. Absolutely worthwhile, in hindsight, but it cost me near everything for it.

chromatin 6y ago
Great comment, although Judy Collins’ recording (which came first) is far better than Joni Mitchell’s :)
- JesseMeyer 6y ago
  Ha, thanks for the history lesson. :)
- mordechai9000 6y ago
  I agree, it's far better than her studio version. But Joni Mitchell wrote the song. There's a video on YouTube of her performing it live, and it sounds a lot like the Judy Collins version, strangely enough.
charliemil4 6y ago
How did you get out of the tailspin? It’s quite hard to “pull up” when there is nothing that feels grounded...
- JesseMeyer 6y ago
  There was no pulling up. And there was no ground beneath my feet. Just an endless ocean with no points of reference by which to orient oneself. So the only course of action was not to search for rocks to cling to, but of learning how to swim, and dive in. As backwards as it may read, I only felt secure after having let go of myself. As odd as this description may sound to someone who has not experienced this, it is instantly recognizable to those who have -- which helped discover others who traversed this before. It so happens that Buddhists have a rich tradition for navigating these waters, which helped satisfy my intellectual curiosity of what was happening. To know that I was not 'defective' but merely in an initial stage of 'unlearning' was a big jolt of positively to my psychology.
  - charliemil4 6y ago
    Thank you for the amazing and thoughtful help - it feels like I need to go down for a long nap.