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Unless things have changed in the last 24 years * , offers are based on predicted grades, and requirements are set on the actual grades achieved in order for th

by Nursie 6y ago

Unless things have changed in the last 24 years * , offers are based on predicted grades, and requirements are set on the actual grades achieved in order for that offer to transform into a place. Those students who did not achieve the requirements and those universities who still have places to fill then enter the "clearing" process to match up. Were you predicted worse grades than you achieved, and as a result not offered places where you would have liked? ( * they may have, significantly, it's been a long time)

arethuza 6y ago
In Scotland you do Highers in 5th year and apply to universities during 6th year after you get your grades. Motivation for working hard during 6th year can be difficult if you get an unconditional offer based on results you already have....
- Nursie 6y ago
  Yeah I can imagine that does make things weird! So there's nothing happens in the final year that can affect the outcome much? I effectively got an unconditional offer in England way back when, was predicted something like 3 As and a B, and was given an offer to my preferred place at two Cs. Still brought in two As and two Bs though.
  - arethuza 6y ago
    If you get an unconditional that you are happy with then that's it - you have 6 months where you can either work hard for exams that don't count or, like me (and indeed my son who recently went through this process), you can use that time to enjoy yourself and get a job to earn some money before going to Uni. Schools tend to be a bit unhappy about this approach though. If you have a conditional offer then you face the prospect of being like everyone in the rUK. It's pretty nice if you get unconditional offers!
mytailorisrich 6y ago
There are a lot of unconditional offers these days, which means that the university will not look at actual A levels' results at all. Edit: "38% of applicants (97,045 applicants) received at least one offer with an unconditional component in 2019, increasing from 34% (87,540 applicants) in 2018, and continuing the year-on-year growth in offers with an unconditional component since 2013." [1] This year at least one Oxford College has already decided to honour all offers without looking at actual A-Level results , whereby effectively turning all offers into unconditional offers [1]. Granted, this is not a normal year. Let's be honest, though, if you got an offer from Oxbridge you're very good so they're not exactly taking a risk and it gets them brownie points. [1] (PDF) https://www.ucas.com/file/250931/download?token=R8Nn7uoI#:~:text=with%20an%20unconditional-,component.,an%20unconditional%20component%20since%202013 https://www.ucas.com/file/250931/download?token=R8Nn7uoI#:~:.... [2] https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/aug/15/a-levels-row-oxford-college-to-honour-all-offers-despite-results https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/aug/15/a-levels-r...
- Nursie 6y ago
  Interesting. They were pretty rare back then.
- kiplkipl 6y ago
  The only unconditional offers I've ever heard of have been for less prestigious courses.
- edh649 6y ago
  A common trick the universities use is to tell candidates that they'll upgrade them from a conditional (e.g. AAB offer) to an unconditional offer if they make that university their firm choice within X days. I believe it's a way for them to better predict how many students they'll have next year, otherwise it can fluctuate pretty wildly based on exam day results.
LatteLazy 6y ago
I should pre-disclaim this by saying I actually really enjoyed my time at Exeter and it's an excellent school but at the time I felt I'd been treated very unfairly. I think my case is a good example of how the system is badly designed, and then operates in a way that's worse than the theoretical design. >Were you predicted worse grades than you achieved, and as a result not offered places where you would have liked? Yes. Story time but skip to the next quote if it's boring :) I got 4 A's at AS level back in 2001 (I did my Alevels in 2002, the first year of the AS/A2 split). My subject teachers all agreed I'd get the same at A Level. My School decided that "to avoid over estimating" they would reduce all the predictions by 3 levels. So I was predicted BBB. What the Fuck? My friend was friends with the head of VI form (he did theater with her after school, they got drunk together at after show parties, he was very pretty and charming and she was 50+, super weird and dodgy but whatever). Somehow he was predicted AAB. The only one in the school year of ~90 students over BBB. Some people even cried over this as they wanted to do medicine and that's difficult with AAA predicted... My friend was called for interview at Imperial, where we both wanted to go and study Physics. He went and was offered AAA. I was not called for interview. Results came in and I got my AAA. He got BBB. Imperial didn't care and admitted him anyway. I think I am sort of a perfect example of what's wrong with the current system: I was poor and badly turned out and a bit brutish but ferociously bright. He was sort of the opposite. I got good grades, he was better at getting predictions. He was the one that got the Imperial place. >Those students who did not achieve the requirements and those universities who still have places to fill then enter the "clearing" process to match up. I think this is the issue because this rarely happens even though it's meant to. There are 2 sides to this: * If you miss the required grades, you generally keep your place. Universities routinely make an offer at X and then take you whether you get the grades. I understand why: when you reject a candidate with BBB, you're not guaranteed one with AAA, your going to end up with whatever clearing gives you. And not many AAA candidates are in clearing are they? This becomes a self fulfilling prophecy of sorts. * If you blow through your predicted grades (As instead of Bs) you have 3 options: 1. Stick with the school you were offered at (I did this). 2. Take a whole year out and re-apply next year with your grades. That's a pretty huge step for an 18 years old to take. 3. Enter clearing, but you know that Imperial, Oxbridge etc don't really do clearing do that? Back in 2002 there was actually discussion of forcing all uni's to keep X% of places for clearing for exactly this reason. It's also worth noting that these days something like 20% of offers are unconditional. I think I did more than ok in the end. I had a better time than my friend (he had to live at home in first year and never really got the "experience" etc). But people should be aware of how the system works: you're actual grades make very little difference, predicted grades are KEY to getting into (not just an offer, actually into) a top uni, and the best way to get good grades is only about 50% about ability and hard work compared to looking nice and sucking up to the right people. Maybe this is a great lesson for how life isn't fair :)

by Nursie 6y ago

arethuza 6y ago

In Scotland you do Highers in 5th year and apply to universities during 6th year after you get your grades. Motivation for working hard during 6th year can be difficult if you get an unconditional offer based on results you already have....

Nursie 6y ago
Yeah I can imagine that does make things weird! So there's nothing happens in the final year that can affect the outcome much? I effectively got an unconditional offer in England way back when, was predicted something like 3 As and a B, and was given an offer to my preferred place at two Cs. Still brought in two As and two Bs though.
- arethuza 6y ago
  If you get an unconditional that you are happy with then that's it - you have 6 months where you can either work hard for exams that don't count or, like me (and indeed my son who recently went through this process), you can use that time to enjoy yourself and get a job to earn some money before going to Uni. Schools tend to be a bit unhappy about this approach though. If you have a conditional offer then you face the prospect of being like everyone in the rUK. It's pretty nice if you get unconditional offers!

mytailorisrich 6y ago

There are a lot of unconditional offers these days, which means that the university will not look at actual A levels' results at all. Edit: "38% of applicants (97,045 applicants) received at least one offer with an unconditional component in 2019, increasing from 34% (87,540 applicants) in 2018, and continuing the year-on-year growth in offers with an unconditional component since 2013." [1] This year at least one Oxford College has already decided to honour all offers without looking at actual A-Level results , whereby effectively turning all offers into unconditional offers [1]. Granted, this is not a normal year. Let's be honest, though, if you got an offer from Oxbridge you're very good so they're not exactly taking a risk and it gets them brownie points. [1] (PDF) https://www.ucas.com/file/250931/download?token=R8Nn7uoI#:~:text=with%20an%20unconditional-,component.,an%20unconditional%20component%20since%202013 https://www.ucas.com/file/250931/download?token=R8Nn7uoI#:~:.... [2] https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/aug/15/a-levels-row-oxford-college-to-honour-all-offers-despite-results https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/aug/15/a-levels-r...

Nursie 6y ago
Interesting. They were pretty rare back then.
kiplkipl 6y ago
The only unconditional offers I've ever heard of have been for less prestigious courses.
edh649 6y ago
A common trick the universities use is to tell candidates that they'll upgrade them from a conditional (e.g. AAB offer) to an unconditional offer if they make that university their firm choice within X days. I believe it's a way for them to better predict how many students they'll have next year, otherwise it can fluctuate pretty wildly based on exam day results.

LatteLazy 6y ago

I should pre-disclaim this by saying I actually really enjoyed my time at Exeter and it's an excellent school but at the time I felt I'd been treated very unfairly. I think my case is a good example of how the system is badly designed, and then operates in a way that's worse than the theoretical design. >Were you predicted worse grades than you achieved, and as a result not offered places where you would have liked? Yes. Story time but skip to the next quote if it's boring :) I got 4 A's at AS level back in 2001 (I did my Alevels in 2002, the first year of the AS/A2 split). My subject teachers all agreed I'd get the same at A Level. My School decided that "to avoid over estimating" they would reduce all the predictions by 3 levels. So I was predicted BBB. What the Fuck? My friend was friends with the head of VI form (he did theater with her after school, they got drunk together at after show parties, he was very pretty and charming and she was 50+, super weird and dodgy but whatever). Somehow he was predicted AAB. The only one in the school year of ~90 students over BBB. Some people even cried over this as they wanted to do medicine and that's difficult with AAA predicted... My friend was called for interview at Imperial, where we both wanted to go and study Physics. He went and was offered AAA. I was not called for interview. Results came in and I got my AAA. He got BBB. Imperial didn't care and admitted him anyway. I think I am sort of a perfect example of what's wrong with the current system: I was poor and badly turned out and a bit brutish but ferociously bright. He was sort of the opposite. I got good grades, he was better at getting predictions. He was the one that got the Imperial place. >Those students who did not achieve the requirements and those universities who still have places to fill then enter the "clearing" process to match up. I think this is the issue because this rarely happens even though it's meant to. There are 2 sides to this: * If you miss the required grades, you generally keep your place. Universities routinely make an offer at X and then take you whether you get the grades. I understand why: when you reject a candidate with BBB, you're not guaranteed one with AAA, your going to end up with whatever clearing gives you. And not many AAA candidates are in clearing are they? This becomes a self fulfilling prophecy of sorts. * If you blow through your predicted grades (As instead of Bs) you have 3 options: 1. Stick with the school you were offered at (I did this). 2. Take a whole year out and re-apply next year with your grades. That's a pretty huge step for an 18 years old to take. 3. Enter clearing, but you know that Imperial, Oxbridge etc don't really do clearing do that? Back in 2002 there was actually discussion of forcing all uni's to keep X% of places for clearing for exactly this reason. It's also worth noting that these days something like 20% of offers are unconditional. I think I did more than ok in the end. I had a better time than my friend (he had to live at home in first year and never really got the "experience" etc). But people should be aware of how the system works: you're actual grades make very little difference, predicted grades are KEY to getting into (not just an offer, actually into) a top uni, and the best way to get good grades is only about 50% about ability and hard work compared to looking nice and sucking up to the right people. Maybe this is a great lesson for how life isn't fair :)