6 ms·

Raptor Systems’s POWER9-based Talos system immediately came to mind when I was reading this. I definitely hope they’ll be bringing out a POWER10-supporting succ

by qubex 6y ago

Raptor Systems’s POWER9-based Talos system immediately came to mind when I was reading this. I definitely hope they’ll be bringing out a POWER10-supporting successor. The experience is now pretty perfect, even for the supposedly dicey desktop environment (provided you keep in mind that there’s a lot less hardware present than you might’ve come to expect: no integrated graphics, no in-built sound, even disk and network controllers can be a bit dicey). Their initial offerings had some notable teething problems, that I shan’t waste more pixels going into (I’ve railed against them and turned in their favour, so I shall let it rest with my partisanship and convert’s fervour). It’s certainly worth considering if you’re into exotic hardware and/or are super-security conscious AND are willing to pay some extra money beyond what you’d expect for comparable x86₆₄ commodity builds. Well worth hoping for and looking into.

aww_dang 6y ago
Looks like about 10k USD for the POWER9 recommended config https://secure.raptorcs.com/content/TL2WK2/purchase.html https://secure.raptorcs.com/content/TL2WK2/purchase.html
- AlbertoGP 6y ago
  That’s true, but if you base the system on the smaller BlackBird motherboard (as I did) you can go much lower. https://wiki.raptorcs.com/wiki/Blackbird https://wiki.raptorcs.com/wiki/Blackbird https://secure.raptorcs.com/content/base/products.html https://secure.raptorcs.com/content/base/products.html You might also not need the Radeon WX7100 Pro, if a consumer level graphic card is enough there are sevaral options: https://wiki.raptorcs.com/wiki/POWER9_Hardware_Compatibility_List/PCIe_Devices#Graphics_Cards https://wiki.raptorcs.com/wiki/POWER9_Hardware_Compatibility... The more you’re ready to do-it-yourself, the more you can save. You absolutely need the motherboard and IBM chip, and then you can get other things like memory, storage, graphic card, etc. used for much cheaper. Only the memory is a bit special as it has to be registered, but because of that you might be able to find good deals since it can’t be used in standard desktop computers. You can get more performance for the same price with AMD/Intel, but for those interested this platform is not that out of reach. I use it as my workstation and I’m happy with it.
  - hestefisk 6y ago
    How much is ‘much lower’? I would love to build a workstation for myself using PowerPC. Would it run AmigaOS?
    - aww_dang 6y ago
      Blackbird™ Mainboard (Board Only) Order online for $1,310.99 Current Status: Backordered Not unreasonable. $500 for the 4-core processor or $800 for the 8 core. Basically what you would have paid for a decent system decades ago, without adjusting for inflation.
    - AlbertoGP 6y ago
      “Much lower” is still quite expensive compared to a mainstream platform: the absolute minimum if you already had all the other pieces would be the motherboard and CPU bundle for $2,133.77: https://secure.raptorcs.com/content/BK1B01/intro.html https://secure.raptorcs.com/content/BK1B01/intro.html That’s 8 cores, which since Power9 has SMT4 means 32 threads. The 4 core CPU bundle is a bit cheaper but when you add the 2u CPU cooler its price gets very close, so it’s not worth it unless your computer case is too narrow for the 3u (≃15 cm clearance, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rack_unit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rack_unit) cooler included with the 8 core CPU. It won’t run AmigaOS unless on an emulator[1], and then you’re better off with AMD/Intel: you would lose more performance in emulating the CPU, but you would get more raw performance for your money anyway. [1] https://forums.raptorcs.com/index.php/topic,75.0.html https://forums.raptorcs.com/index.php/topic,75.0.html If you want to run AmigaOS software natively on PowerPC your best option is a PPC Mac running MorphOS. It even runs on the PowerBook G4: https://ddg.co/?q=morphos+powerbook+g4 https://ddg.co/?q=morphos+powerbook+g4 Or if a well-integrated emulator suits you better, take a look at AmiKit: https://www.amikit.amiga.sk/ https://www.amikit.amiga.sk/ I don’t think that this CPU would be a net advantage for those use cases. I did use Amiga computers even as Commodore went bust, hanging on, but the approach I’m going for now is FPGA implementations: https://misterfpga.org/ https://misterfpga.org/ http://www.apollo-core.com/index.htm?page=preorder http://www.apollo-core.com/index.htm?page=preorder I’m in the waiting list for Vampire4 Standalone, but for now I’ve got a MiSTeR. So no, don’t buy a Power9 hoping to run AmigaOS on it any better than on a mainstream PC. P.S.: the $1310.99 price mentioned by aww_dang must be from a few months ago, the current price displayed in Raptor’s website is $1732.07. Prices went up due to the current COVID-19-induced crisis, which also made Raptor cancel their upcoming Condor platform (ATX Power9 but LaGrange-based: twice the memory bandwidth): https://www.talospace.com/2020/07/condor-cancelled.html https://www.talospace.com/2020/07/condor-cancelled.html P.S.#2: for those in Europe, Vikings (https://vikings.net/ https://vikings.net/) has been trying for a while to offer them here and they might be able do so it soon: https://www.talospace.com/2020/08/vikings-upcoming-openpower-retail.html https://www.talospace.com/2020/08/vikings-upcoming-openpower... P.S.#3: used BlackBird with 8C Power9 for sale in Germany: https://forums.raptorcs.com/index.php/topic,153.0.html https://forums.raptorcs.com/index.php/topic,153.0.html

by qubex 6y ago

aww_dang 6y ago

Looks like about 10k USD for the POWER9 recommended config https://secure.raptorcs.com/content/TL2WK2/purchase.html https://secure.raptorcs.com/content/TL2WK2/purchase.html

AlbertoGP 6y ago
That’s true, but if you base the system on the smaller BlackBird motherboard (as I did) you can go much lower. https://wiki.raptorcs.com/wiki/Blackbird https://wiki.raptorcs.com/wiki/Blackbird https://secure.raptorcs.com/content/base/products.html https://secure.raptorcs.com/content/base/products.html You might also not need the Radeon WX7100 Pro, if a consumer level graphic card is enough there are sevaral options: https://wiki.raptorcs.com/wiki/POWER9_Hardware_Compatibility_List/PCIe_Devices#Graphics_Cards https://wiki.raptorcs.com/wiki/POWER9_Hardware_Compatibility... The more you’re ready to do-it-yourself, the more you can save. You absolutely need the motherboard and IBM chip, and then you can get other things like memory, storage, graphic card, etc. used for much cheaper. Only the memory is a bit special as it has to be registered, but because of that you might be able to find good deals since it can’t be used in standard desktop computers. You can get more performance for the same price with AMD/Intel, but for those interested this platform is not that out of reach. I use it as my workstation and I’m happy with it.
- hestefisk 6y ago
  How much is ‘much lower’? I would love to build a workstation for myself using PowerPC. Would it run AmigaOS?
  - aww_dang 6y ago
    Blackbird™ Mainboard (Board Only) Order online for $1,310.99 Current Status: Backordered Not unreasonable. $500 for the 4-core processor or $800 for the 8 core. Basically what you would have paid for a decent system decades ago, without adjusting for inflation.
  - AlbertoGP 6y ago
    “Much lower” is still quite expensive compared to a mainstream platform: the absolute minimum if you already had all the other pieces would be the motherboard and CPU bundle for $2,133.77: https://secure.raptorcs.com/content/BK1B01/intro.html https://secure.raptorcs.com/content/BK1B01/intro.html That’s 8 cores, which since Power9 has SMT4 means 32 threads. The 4 core CPU bundle is a bit cheaper but when you add the 2u CPU cooler its price gets very close, so it’s not worth it unless your computer case is too narrow for the 3u (≃15 cm clearance, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rack_unit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rack_unit) cooler included with the 8 core CPU. It won’t run AmigaOS unless on an emulator[1], and then you’re better off with AMD/Intel: you would lose more performance in emulating the CPU, but you would get more raw performance for your money anyway. [1] https://forums.raptorcs.com/index.php/topic,75.0.html https://forums.raptorcs.com/index.php/topic,75.0.html If you want to run AmigaOS software natively on PowerPC your best option is a PPC Mac running MorphOS. It even runs on the PowerBook G4: https://ddg.co/?q=morphos+powerbook+g4 https://ddg.co/?q=morphos+powerbook+g4 Or if a well-integrated emulator suits you better, take a look at AmiKit: https://www.amikit.amiga.sk/ https://www.amikit.amiga.sk/ I don’t think that this CPU would be a net advantage for those use cases. I did use Amiga computers even as Commodore went bust, hanging on, but the approach I’m going for now is FPGA implementations: https://misterfpga.org/ https://misterfpga.org/ http://www.apollo-core.com/index.htm?page=preorder http://www.apollo-core.com/index.htm?page=preorder I’m in the waiting list for Vampire4 Standalone, but for now I’ve got a MiSTeR. So no, don’t buy a Power9 hoping to run AmigaOS on it any better than on a mainstream PC. P.S.: the $1310.99 price mentioned by aww_dang must be from a few months ago, the current price displayed in Raptor’s website is $1732.07. Prices went up due to the current COVID-19-induced crisis, which also made Raptor cancel their upcoming Condor platform (ATX Power9 but LaGrange-based: twice the memory bandwidth): https://www.talospace.com/2020/07/condor-cancelled.html https://www.talospace.com/2020/07/condor-cancelled.html P.S.#2: for those in Europe, Vikings (https://vikings.net/ https://vikings.net/) has been trying for a while to offer them here and they might be able do so it soon: https://www.talospace.com/2020/08/vikings-upcoming-openpower-retail.html https://www.talospace.com/2020/08/vikings-upcoming-openpower... P.S.#3: used BlackBird with 8C Power9 for sale in Germany: https://forums.raptorcs.com/index.php/topic,153.0.html https://forums.raptorcs.com/index.php/topic,153.0.html