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And the advantage here is that it's the start of development of a genetic-modification toolkit (similar to that we already have for fruit flies and c elegans an

And the advantage here is that it's the start of development of a genetic-modification toolkit (similar to that we already have for fruit flies and c elegans and zebrafish) for using them as animal models. Much more complex of a brain than any of the other animal models we usually use.

meowface 6y ago
Isn't this a bit of a slippery slope? The better a model of a human brain you experiment on, the closer you approach the ethics of performing the same experiment on human embryos, infants, children, and adults (as they age). I think this is already pretty close to the case for mice, but when you start doing it to cephalopods, primates, and dolphins/orcas, you're really skirting the line. I wonder if there'll ever be a time where if we aren't comfortable with doing something to human embryos (or other stages) in experiments, we also won't be comfortable doing it to the animals closest to us on the intelligence and awareness totem pole, and eventually perhaps any sentient animals at all (so nearly all of them besides jellyfish, sponges, anemomes, and some other ocean dwellers). This day feels inevitable to me, but I don't know whether it's 20 years or 200 years away.
- FriendlyNormie 6y ago
  Whatever pathetic western pussies are too squeamish to do, China will do it first or has secretly already done it.
- VRay 6y ago
  We're still chopping up likely-sentient animals and eating them, so it's probably a ways off..
  - war1025 6y ago
    I believe I read this in the book Grandfather by Tom Brown [1] (could have been somewhere else). The author was taught by an Apache elder about survival, etc. Part of that was learning how to track and hunt. The first time he killed a deer, he was required to sneak up on the deer and kill it with a knife. That way he would know the gravity of what he was doing. He wrote that he cried for a good while afterwards. I think that is a perspective more people should take with eating meat. To know you are taking the life of a living, breathing thing to sustain your own life. I think it used to be a much more common view, but it's hard to view a chicken nugget or a hamburger as an animal that lost its life to continue yours. [1] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/434013.Grandfather https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/434013.Grandfather
    - meowface 6y ago
      There's also the problem that for most people in developed countries, you don't actually need to take a conscious life to sustain your life. It's a luxury, like wearing fur.
  - meowface 6y ago
    Indeed. But many experiments are more cruel to sentient beings than, say, getting shot by a hunter. I'd much prefer to be summarily executed than to end up in Mengele's lab. Both are wrong, but one is worse.
- oblio 6y ago
  Wait until you read about pig intelligence levels. And unfortunately, it seems I still love ham and bacon :-(

meowface 6y ago

Isn't this a bit of a slippery slope? The better a model of a human brain you experiment on, the closer you approach the ethics of performing the same experiment on human embryos, infants, children, and adults (as they age). I think this is already pretty close to the case for mice, but when you start doing it to cephalopods, primates, and dolphins/orcas, you're really skirting the line. I wonder if there'll ever be a time where if we aren't comfortable with doing something to human embryos (or other stages) in experiments, we also won't be comfortable doing it to the animals closest to us on the intelligence and awareness totem pole, and eventually perhaps any sentient animals at all (so nearly all of them besides jellyfish, sponges, anemomes, and some other ocean dwellers). This day feels inevitable to me, but I don't know whether it's 20 years or 200 years away.

FriendlyNormie 6y ago
Whatever pathetic western pussies are too squeamish to do, China will do it first or has secretly already done it.
VRay 6y ago
We're still chopping up likely-sentient animals and eating them, so it's probably a ways off..
- war1025 6y ago
  I believe I read this in the book Grandfather by Tom Brown [1] (could have been somewhere else). The author was taught by an Apache elder about survival, etc. Part of that was learning how to track and hunt. The first time he killed a deer, he was required to sneak up on the deer and kill it with a knife. That way he would know the gravity of what he was doing. He wrote that he cried for a good while afterwards. I think that is a perspective more people should take with eating meat. To know you are taking the life of a living, breathing thing to sustain your own life. I think it used to be a much more common view, but it's hard to view a chicken nugget or a hamburger as an animal that lost its life to continue yours. [1] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/434013.Grandfather https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/434013.Grandfather
  - meowface 6y ago
    There's also the problem that for most people in developed countries, you don't actually need to take a conscious life to sustain your life. It's a luxury, like wearing fur.
- meowface 6y ago
  Indeed. But many experiments are more cruel to sentient beings than, say, getting shot by a hunter. I'd much prefer to be summarily executed than to end up in Mengele's lab. Both are wrong, but one is worse.
oblio 6y ago
Wait until you read about pig intelligence levels. And unfortunately, it seems I still love ham and bacon :-(