4 ms·

I think his point was that if you’re unwilling to stop something, that is politically equivalent to wanting it.

ssss11 6y ago
I’d genuinely like to know how everday citizens get their government to do the rght thing. It seems everywhere around the world they just do what benefits themselves. people protest, and get hit with rubber bullets, but nothing seems to change.
- Foxheart 6y ago
  I've been wondering the same thing lately. The solution isn't with protesting in the street, even if you can topple the government, you just get more tyranny from the next crowd.
- sthnblllII 6y ago
  Unlike the Ron Popiel rotisserie oven, politics isn’t “set and forget”. There’s no magic system where, once established, good honest people can ignore politics and have effective government.
- eru 6y ago
  I would suggest to vote with your feet. Pick a government you like and move there, instead of trying to change the government in the place you happen to be born in. Voting with your feet also changes where you pay taxes. (Unless you are American, then you need to jump through some extra hoops to make sure your mother country doesn't get your money any more.)
  - throwaway45349 6y ago
    I'm not sure this is a good idea. Why would anyone abandon their home/nation to jump ship into a culture they know nothing about -- except for government policy? Only in the US with it's state system is what you're describing practical.
    - eru 6y ago
      The US is far from the only federal country. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federalism#Examples https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federalism#Examples You are not only jumping to a new government policy, but the whole package changes. Including culture etc. Yes. Many people around the world are looking to migrate. If borders were more open, many more people would migrate. About why? You could go and ask some of them. (Or as an alternative, Googling for 'why do people migrate?' gives lots of results to studies etc.)
taneq 6y ago
I think ssss11's point was, if no matter who you vote for they do the same dastardly things, and the political system is set up to lock out newcomers not allied with either major party, then there's no way within the system to stop something by voting.
- ssss11 6y ago
  Yeah thats right, I think in Australia your vote basically means nothing.
  - sthnblllII 6y ago
    You are certainly correct if you vote for the center-left or center-right parties. But that is true in all western states. Are you familiar with French politics? For all the crap Americans give them about surrendering in the world wars, the french have had the courage to sideline both their center right and center left parties and now the biggest parties are nationalist and socialist.
  - zizee 6y ago
    This is not true. Federal senators are elected on a state wide basis with the top N candidates past the post (N depending on size of the state). This can result in Senators being elected with a very small % of the overall votes. For the lower house, we've had many years of the balance of power in the hands of a small number of independents who get an outsized voice. Yes, if you live in an non-swing electorate, that is strongly held by the incumbent, then you could argue that your vote doesn't matter, but only because there are more people voting for something else. Isn't that how things are meant to work?
    - taneq 6y ago
      All of this is true, but it ignores the fact that the two major parties pretty much agree on many important issues (such as government monitoring of internet traffic). Also the fact that (especially with a hung parliament which we've had for years) independents get an outsized voice is a bit of a two-edged sword. It's far more luck than anything else that determines who's in that vote-tipping seat and sometimes they demand all sorts of special-interest stuff in order to let things through.

I’d genuinely like to know how everday citizens get their government to do the rght thing. It seems everywhere around the world they just do what benefits themselves. people protest, and get hit with rubber bullets, but nothing seems to change.

Foxheart 6y ago
I've been wondering the same thing lately. The solution isn't with protesting in the street, even if you can topple the government, you just get more tyranny from the next crowd.
sthnblllII 6y ago
Unlike the Ron Popiel rotisserie oven, politics isn’t “set and forget”. There’s no magic system where, once established, good honest people can ignore politics and have effective government.
eru 6y ago
I would suggest to vote with your feet. Pick a government you like and move there, instead of trying to change the government in the place you happen to be born in. Voting with your feet also changes where you pay taxes. (Unless you are American, then you need to jump through some extra hoops to make sure your mother country doesn't get your money any more.)
- throwaway45349 6y ago
  I'm not sure this is a good idea. Why would anyone abandon their home/nation to jump ship into a culture they know nothing about -- except for government policy? Only in the US with it's state system is what you're describing practical.
  - eru 6y ago
    The US is far from the only federal country. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federalism#Examples https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federalism#Examples You are not only jumping to a new government policy, but the whole package changes. Including culture etc. Yes. Many people around the world are looking to migrate. If borders were more open, many more people would migrate. About why? You could go and ask some of them. (Or as an alternative, Googling for 'why do people migrate?' gives lots of results to studies etc.)

taneq 6y ago

I think ssss11's point was, if no matter who you vote for they do the same dastardly things, and the political system is set up to lock out newcomers not allied with either major party, then there's no way within the system to stop something by voting.

ssss11 6y ago
Yeah thats right, I think in Australia your vote basically means nothing.
- sthnblllII 6y ago
  You are certainly correct if you vote for the center-left or center-right parties. But that is true in all western states. Are you familiar with French politics? For all the crap Americans give them about surrendering in the world wars, the french have had the courage to sideline both their center right and center left parties and now the biggest parties are nationalist and socialist.
- zizee 6y ago
  This is not true. Federal senators are elected on a state wide basis with the top N candidates past the post (N depending on size of the state). This can result in Senators being elected with a very small % of the overall votes. For the lower house, we've had many years of the balance of power in the hands of a small number of independents who get an outsized voice. Yes, if you live in an non-swing electorate, that is strongly held by the incumbent, then you could argue that your vote doesn't matter, but only because there are more people voting for something else. Isn't that how things are meant to work?
  - taneq 6y ago
    All of this is true, but it ignores the fact that the two major parties pretty much agree on many important issues (such as government monitoring of internet traffic). Also the fact that (especially with a hung parliament which we've had for years) independents get an outsized voice is a bit of a two-edged sword. It's far more luck than anything else that determines who's in that vote-tipping seat and sometimes they demand all sorts of special-interest stuff in order to let things through.