3 ms·

> In 2019, Fu and Ptacek discovered two more genes connected to natural short sleep, and they’ll soon submit a paper describing a fourth, providing even more ev

> In 2019, Fu and Ptacek discovered two more genes connected to natural short sleep, and they’ll soon submit a paper describing a fourth, providing even more evidence that functioning well on less sleep is a genetic trait. Several years ago I was listening to a Freakonomics Radio series where they interviewed a bunch of big company CEOs, and one thing that I noticed was they all described their normal routine as involving very little sleep. It struck me then that being a high power leader is almost certainly genetic in the same way that genes for height are essentially required to be a serious / professional basketball player. I struggle with sleep, always have, and rarely feel good in the morning without about 8 hours or more in bed. And I’m acutely aware of many of my friends and peers who need much less than this and feel fine. Occasionally I’ll find myself at a conference or something and the group I’m with will stay out late and then get up early and go about their day as normal. I used to try and keep up, but I would be so hung over the next morning (regardless of whether I had anything to drink) as to be non-functional. It’s a sad thing to me to think that I don’t have the genetics to keep up with the people who need a lot less sleep than I do. However, I’m gradually making peace with it, as I focus on finding things I can do with my life that are compatible with my need for more time in bed.

otherme123 6y ago
Well, Marissa Mayer is quite preachy about working long hours and sleeping poorly. She always had important roles in big companies, but he managed Yahoo quite poorly. So she fits the narrative ("no sleep -> CEO"), but that doesn't mean that you will be CEOing correctly. I'm sure there are other good CEOs that sleep 8 or more hours, but they don't talk about it. I hide the fact that I like to sleep at least 8 hours (but 9 would be my optimal), because sleeping 6 hours or less is a medal in my workplace. I only know of Basecamp CEOs that take the opposite stance: they admit to sleep at least 8 hours, take long vacations, having cool hobbies and healthy families, working 40ish hours per week... while keeping their bussiness running happily on profits for 17 years in a row. And boy did they receive criticism for saying it out loud. Nonsense like "if you worked harder and slept less, your bussiness would be billionaire instead of millionaire".
- iamben 6y ago
  Tobias Lütke from Shopify is another one you can add to your list that's gone on record about getting decent sleep. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/26/shopify-ceo-you-dont-have-to-work-80-hours-a-week-to-be-successful.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/26/shopify-ceo-you-dont-have-to... :-)
neuronic 6y ago
Also, many try to close the genetic gap here with drugs. Many "leaders"/ high performance people are constantly coked up or on amphetamines.
mpol 6y ago
Recently someone told me his theory. People with thick skin don't need sleep that much. People with thin skin, who are quite receptive, need a lot of sleep. I can imagine that someone who is CEO also has quite a thick skin and doesn't need to sleep that much. It seems to fit that theory :)
kokey 6y ago
I also need closer to around 9 hours of sleep. I am also a relatively light sleeper for a part of the evening, so I need things like ear plugs, total darkness etc. and I guess part of why I need more sleep is because for part of the night I probably get poor quality sleep. If I do get too little sleep I really struggle very badly compared to other people equally sleep deprived. I have ADHD and when sleep deprived it gets significantly worse and I get very anxious not being able to manage priorities and responsibilities. That said, even though I don't think I'm cut out for leadership positions I certainly have enough coping strategies to take advantage of the times I am functioning well enough not to feel like I've been left behind. Also, not everyone has to become a CEO.
specialist 6y ago
I've noticed that higher energy level seems to be the x-factor for some of the materially successful people in my orbit. My sister simply can. not. sit. still. Not ADHD or whatever. I mean she always has to be in motion. On the move. Doing something. So whereas I'm a daydreamer, in the time I can imagine 3 ways to do a thing, my sister has already tried at least 6 options. The Big Boss at one startup was a pretty good sales guy. Not especially smart, but good hustle. Yes, we had all the standard problems of a sales & marketing driven org. Over time you get to really know someone. Offline, holidays, birthday & release parties, etc. This Big Boss was always in motion. Never idle. I remember one time just sitting there, watching him in action, marveling at his boundless energy. He has at least 3x my physical energy level, and many people say I exhaust them. The analogy I think of is higher energy people have more bites at the apple. So just by playing the odds, they'll succeed more often. I've wandered about the psychology of this forever. Is it a bias towards action? Whereas I can think of 100s of ways something will fail, my sis just acts and learns quicker thru action. So is that a bias towards failing faster? I dunno, but I'd love to find out.

otherme123 6y ago

Well, Marissa Mayer is quite preachy about working long hours and sleeping poorly. She always had important roles in big companies, but he managed Yahoo quite poorly. So she fits the narrative ("no sleep -> CEO"), but that doesn't mean that you will be CEOing correctly. I'm sure there are other good CEOs that sleep 8 or more hours, but they don't talk about it. I hide the fact that I like to sleep at least 8 hours (but 9 would be my optimal), because sleeping 6 hours or less is a medal in my workplace. I only know of Basecamp CEOs that take the opposite stance: they admit to sleep at least 8 hours, take long vacations, having cool hobbies and healthy families, working 40ish hours per week... while keeping their bussiness running happily on profits for 17 years in a row. And boy did they receive criticism for saying it out loud. Nonsense like "if you worked harder and slept less, your bussiness would be billionaire instead of millionaire".

iamben 6y ago
Tobias Lütke from Shopify is another one you can add to your list that's gone on record about getting decent sleep. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/26/shopify-ceo-you-dont-have-to-work-80-hours-a-week-to-be-successful.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/26/shopify-ceo-you-dont-have-to... :-)

neuronic 6y ago

Also, many try to close the genetic gap here with drugs. Many "leaders"/ high performance people are constantly coked up or on amphetamines.

mpol 6y ago

Recently someone told me his theory. People with thick skin don't need sleep that much. People with thin skin, who are quite receptive, need a lot of sleep. I can imagine that someone who is CEO also has quite a thick skin and doesn't need to sleep that much. It seems to fit that theory :)

kokey 6y ago

I also need closer to around 9 hours of sleep. I am also a relatively light sleeper for a part of the evening, so I need things like ear plugs, total darkness etc. and I guess part of why I need more sleep is because for part of the night I probably get poor quality sleep. If I do get too little sleep I really struggle very badly compared to other people equally sleep deprived. I have ADHD and when sleep deprived it gets significantly worse and I get very anxious not being able to manage priorities and responsibilities. That said, even though I don't think I'm cut out for leadership positions I certainly have enough coping strategies to take advantage of the times I am functioning well enough not to feel like I've been left behind. Also, not everyone has to become a CEO.

specialist 6y ago

I've noticed that higher energy level seems to be the x-factor for some of the materially successful people in my orbit. My sister simply can. not. sit. still. Not ADHD or whatever. I mean she always has to be in motion. On the move. Doing something. So whereas I'm a daydreamer, in the time I can imagine 3 ways to do a thing, my sister has already tried at least 6 options. The Big Boss at one startup was a pretty good sales guy. Not especially smart, but good hustle. Yes, we had all the standard problems of a sales & marketing driven org. Over time you get to really know someone. Offline, holidays, birthday & release parties, etc. This Big Boss was always in motion. Never idle. I remember one time just sitting there, watching him in action, marveling at his boundless energy. He has at least 3x my physical energy level, and many people say I exhaust them. The analogy I think of is higher energy people have more bites at the apple. So just by playing the odds, they'll succeed more often. I've wandered about the psychology of this forever. Is it a bias towards action? Whereas I can think of 100s of ways something will fail, my sis just acts and learns quicker thru action. So is that a bias towards failing faster? I dunno, but I'd love to find out.