6 ms·

Anyone who isn't using flux[0] after 8pm is seriously hurting themselves. Once you use it, you can't go back. [0] https://justgetflux.com/ https://justgetflux.

by vecter 6y ago

Anyone who isn't using flux[0] after 8pm is seriously hurting themselves. Once you use it, you can't go back. [0] https://justgetflux.com/ https://justgetflux.com/

FooHentai 6y ago
Or the blue light-removing features that are built into most modern OS - Windows 10 has it ('Night Light'), Android ('Night Mode') and IoS ('Night Shift') have it. Flux was great but for the most part modern OS' have caught up and it's no longer needed.
- bangonkeyboard 6y ago
  'In 2009 we first approached Apple to get f.lux on iPhones. Years of promises of API access. The last conversation we had with them was "that's too weird for most of our users. Like the Klingon keyboard." Then, they announced their clone onstage, Macworld 2016.' — https://twitter.com/JustGetFlux/status/1288979404677292032 https://twitter.com/JustGetFlux/status/1288979404677292032
  - guywithabike 6y ago
    It's very likely that the team that said "yes" is not the same team that said "no". Apple is a big company. There's more than one person there.
    - anchpop 6y ago
      Either way it demonstrates that their judgement was flawed
      - dllthomas 6y ago
        Or their judgement is sound, and they correctly assessed that the weirdness of f.lux or the thresholds of their userbase had changed in the intervening 7 years.
        bryanrasmussen 6y ago
        IF they first approached in 2009 and then had years of promises it follows that the intervening years should be 5 at the most. but maybe quite a bit less.
        dllthomas 6y ago
        Ah, yeah, good catch! I think it doesn't really eliminate the possibility, though, with different numbers.
  - skocznymroczny 6y ago
    They just went on with the times, 2016 was the year when everyone was obsessed about the "blue light disrupts your sleep" theories. Android, Windows and macOS were all on-board.
  - Kye 6y ago
    This is just Apple. It's useless, implausible, unreasonable, unviable... Right up until other people do all the R&D for them so they can pick out the parts they like for a big announcement on stage. It's a smart strategy. They get to look like geniuses while others do the hard work and take all the risk.
- DragoCubed 6y ago
  Flux is still so much nicer than Windows 10's Night Light feature. Flux is gradual and has a transition over a few hours while Night Light has a transition over a few seconds.
  - withinboredom 6y ago
    Not to mention, with flux you can get the schedule just right. I work night hours, so it’s a light shade of red. But around 1:30 am it gets really, really red. It 1) tells me I should go to bed if I want to be functional when I wake up. 2) I don’t need to be paying attention to the clock and incidentally rush some work.
meowface 6y ago
I read recently that light brightness is also very important in regulating circadian rhythm; not just blue light. I'd recommend f.lux or similar + dimming your screen until just before the point it's too hard/straining to read things.
darepublic 6y ago
I remember installing flux when dealing with a very severe bout of stress induced insomnia. I kept struggling to fall asleep and then giving in and playing temple run until 7 in the morning
eloisius 6y ago
Every couple of years I see a comment like this and give it another chance, but I honestly cannot tell a difference. Other than the annoyance it gives me with taking the contrast out of everything and de-colorizing my syntax highlighting. Maybe it makes the experience less attractive so I tend to use the computer less late at night, but other than that, what is the big deal?
- ineedasername 6y ago
  Yep, between nights I use my computer late and those I don't, I see no difference on in sleep patterns or next day fatigue etc. I think it's probably much more of an issue for people already susceptible to inspect insomnia or other sleep issues.
  - anilakar 6y ago
    I've found that the effect of sleep deprivation and fatigue in general tends to lag by one full day on average, which makes it harder to mentally correlate between causes and consequences, especially when you're tired. In other words, my alertness on Monday mornings directly depends on how much I slept between Saturday and Sunday. OTOH it also means that I'm able to pull an all-nighter if necessary, but the adverse effects will kick in one day late. F.lux, Windows 10 night light and Android's bedtime mode are great distractions at best and to me they serve more as a bedtime reminder. I feel that most sleep assistants and other life-hacking tools are mostly placebo that give you the feeling you're in control, which is a state the human brain likes. Sadly, it also means that once you know the placebo effect, those tools become useless. :-)
- jedberg 6y ago
  You sort of have to go full sleep hygiene mode for it to work. I use flux, but I also cut all blue light after 10pm. I use 1850k lights (aka candlelight) throughout the house after 10pm. My phone is also yellow shifted and I watch tv yellow shifted too (by only watching from a computer with flux at night). All those things together made a huge difference in sleep quality.
  - 6y ago
balola 6y ago
Lots of laptops and OLED phones flicker in low brightness, using this actually make it worse as your eyes strains quickyly from the combined effect, at least for me. I'm currently using Iris Pro in max brightness, in which the display doesn't need to flicker, the software still can dim the screen itself.
- jack1243star 6y ago
  Do OLED displays flicker? I thought it happens only with LED backlight panels that were dimmed using PWM, which was quite unpleasant when I switched from a CCFL one.
  - balola 6y ago
    Most OLED displays use PWM, as the color dots are hard to control, PWM has no issue in this regard.
coldtea 6y ago
People said that, and flux and other apps came out. Then Apple added it too (and perhaps other OS makers). But there's this too - and increasingly more stories like it: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/12/191216173654.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/12/191216173654.h... https://time.com/5752454/blue-light-sleep/ https://time.com/5752454/blue-light-sleep/
- joveian 6y ago
  Interesting, thanks for sharing those articles. redshift lets you adjust brightness in addition or instead of color temperature (there is a Windows version but it is command line only, doesn't look like it supports macs and does not work with Wayland). Someone mentioned brightness a while back and I've been adjusting both since then but I'll try just adjusting brightness and see how it works. If nothing else, it is possible that warm color temperatures might end up being similar to the issue with flashlights where full spectrum lets you use a lower brightness than red light (of course, with flashlights there is also the issue that many "red" flashlights, even some that advertise as being night vision preserving, aren't in the right range to actually preserve night vision). It does seem like I could lower the brightness a bit more without the warmer color temperature. https://github.com/jonls/redshift https://github.com/jonls/redshift
  - xy2_ 6y ago
    There's a GUI redshift for Windows: https://github.com/maoserr/redshiftgui/downloads https://github.com/maoserr/redshiftgui/downloads
- shlant 6y ago
  if anyone is interested, Michael from f.lux provided some great info in relation to the study the above links are referencing when it was originally posted on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21916679 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21916679
gentleman11 6y ago
Flux needs to decouple it’s dimming timings from your local day/night cycle. I don’t care if it’s light or dark out, if it’s between x and y time I want the screen dimmed; otherwise, I don’t want it dimmed.
- derefr 6y ago
  For a non-day-aligned f.lux to actually help you, you'd need to have blue-light filters on your windows, such that you aren't getting natural blue light during the day. Screens have only maybe 1/1000 the lux of daylight. Letting in even a little bit of daylight (e.g. through blinds) would completely swamp any effect from blue light on an LCD/LED panel.
  - valesco 6y ago
    What about the inverse? It's dark outside, but it's 7pm and I'm not about to sleep.
  - reportgunner 6y ago
    > blue-light filters on your windows Yes or good old fashioned curtains or window blinds.
thdrdt 6y ago
Well recent studies show that software like flux only does a little and maybe even nothing to help you sleep better. The problem is that we keep our brains active late at night and that's the reason why it is hard to get to sleep. For me alcohol is the one that messes with my sleep. The lack of deep sleep makes me feel tired the next day(s). Edit: an article about recent studies: https://time.com/5752454/blue-light-sleep/ https://time.com/5752454/blue-light-sleep/
- ajuc 6y ago
  Maybe it's placebo, but after installing flux I fall asleep at 22:00-23:00. Before I often stayed up till 01:00. I still read a lot on computer in the evening, but I get sleepy much earlier.
- vladvasiliu 6y ago
  Can confirm sibling's observation. I find it much easier to fall asleep when the light is redder. Even for example when reading a book, if there's a lot of bright light in the room I will have a much harder time falling asleep. I've noticed that if I wake up for some reason at night and turn the lights on, if the light is bluer it will tend to wake me up completely, whereas a red light will allow me to stay "sleepy" and fall back asleep quicker.
- Pyramus 6y ago
  > The problem is that we keep our brains active late at night and that's the reason why it is hard to get to sleep. You are correct, however, that's a confounding problem. The (relatively) weak effectiveness of software solutions is due to blocking only a small percentage of blue light from a (relatively) strong light source (assumes short distance to screen, low ambient light at night). Blue light (and even some green light frequencies) is a hardwired stimulus feeding into your circadian rhythm. Blocking all blue and green frequencies, e.g. with simple welding glasses, is effective in supporting the creation of melatonin. But again, having enough melatonin in your system is a necessary but not sufficient condition to be able to sleep.
- shlant 6y ago
  if anyone is interested, Michael from f.lux provided some great info in relation to the study the Time article is referencing when it was originally posted on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21916679 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21916679
_nalply 6y ago
Reducing the light temperature is not enough. After 8 pm I turn off all harsh lights in my home and avoid things which excite me. Evenings I often tell my wife to postpone lively debates to the next day. All this makes my body ready for sleep and at 10 pm I feel relieved to close my eyes and dozing off. I have accepted that I seem to need more sleep than others. Usually after 8 to 9 hours of sleep I wake up on my own.
fsflover 6y ago
Redshift is the free alternative for GNU/Linux.
jabirali 6y ago
I also have a positive experience with Redshift, and use it on both computers and phones at night. Since I live in the north, I also have good experience with "rubber curtains" that block out all sunlight at night in the summer, and a "wake-up light" that simulates sunrises in the winter.
reportgunner 6y ago
> Once you use it, you can't go back. I did and I went back. It does very little you use night mode everywhere. It might help with white backgrounds but I remove or avoid those even during daylight. I do use the 'Eye saver' mode on my smartphone, but only to visually let me know that it's after midnight.

by vecter 6y ago

Anyone who isn't using flux[0] after 8pm is seriously hurting themselves. Once you use it, you can't go back. [0] https://justgetflux.com/ https://justgetflux.com/

FooHentai 6y ago

Or the blue light-removing features that are built into most modern OS - Windows 10 has it ('Night Light'), Android ('Night Mode') and IoS ('Night Shift') have it. Flux was great but for the most part modern OS' have caught up and it's no longer needed.

bangonkeyboard 6y ago
'In 2009 we first approached Apple to get f.lux on iPhones. Years of promises of API access. The last conversation we had with them was "that's too weird for most of our users. Like the Klingon keyboard." Then, they announced their clone onstage, Macworld 2016.' — https://twitter.com/JustGetFlux/status/1288979404677292032 https://twitter.com/JustGetFlux/status/1288979404677292032
- guywithabike 6y ago
  It's very likely that the team that said "yes" is not the same team that said "no". Apple is a big company. There's more than one person there.
  - anchpop 6y ago
    Either way it demonstrates that their judgement was flawed
    - dllthomas 6y ago
      Or their judgement is sound, and they correctly assessed that the weirdness of f.lux or the thresholds of their userbase had changed in the intervening 7 years.
      - bryanrasmussen 6y ago
        IF they first approached in 2009 and then had years of promises it follows that the intervening years should be 5 at the most. but maybe quite a bit less.
        dllthomas 6y ago
        Ah, yeah, good catch! I think it doesn't really eliminate the possibility, though, with different numbers.
- skocznymroczny 6y ago
  They just went on with the times, 2016 was the year when everyone was obsessed about the "blue light disrupts your sleep" theories. Android, Windows and macOS were all on-board.
- Kye 6y ago
  This is just Apple. It's useless, implausible, unreasonable, unviable... Right up until other people do all the R&D for them so they can pick out the parts they like for a big announcement on stage. It's a smart strategy. They get to look like geniuses while others do the hard work and take all the risk.
DragoCubed 6y ago
Flux is still so much nicer than Windows 10's Night Light feature. Flux is gradual and has a transition over a few hours while Night Light has a transition over a few seconds.
- withinboredom 6y ago
  Not to mention, with flux you can get the schedule just right. I work night hours, so it’s a light shade of red. But around 1:30 am it gets really, really red. It 1) tells me I should go to bed if I want to be functional when I wake up. 2) I don’t need to be paying attention to the clock and incidentally rush some work.

meowface 6y ago

I read recently that light brightness is also very important in regulating circadian rhythm; not just blue light. I'd recommend f.lux or similar + dimming your screen until just before the point it's too hard/straining to read things.

darepublic 6y ago

I remember installing flux when dealing with a very severe bout of stress induced insomnia. I kept struggling to fall asleep and then giving in and playing temple run until 7 in the morning

eloisius 6y ago

Every couple of years I see a comment like this and give it another chance, but I honestly cannot tell a difference. Other than the annoyance it gives me with taking the contrast out of everything and de-colorizing my syntax highlighting. Maybe it makes the experience less attractive so I tend to use the computer less late at night, but other than that, what is the big deal?

ineedasername 6y ago
Yep, between nights I use my computer late and those I don't, I see no difference on in sleep patterns or next day fatigue etc. I think it's probably much more of an issue for people already susceptible to inspect insomnia or other sleep issues.
- anilakar 6y ago
  I've found that the effect of sleep deprivation and fatigue in general tends to lag by one full day on average, which makes it harder to mentally correlate between causes and consequences, especially when you're tired. In other words, my alertness on Monday mornings directly depends on how much I slept between Saturday and Sunday. OTOH it also means that I'm able to pull an all-nighter if necessary, but the adverse effects will kick in one day late. F.lux, Windows 10 night light and Android's bedtime mode are great distractions at best and to me they serve more as a bedtime reminder. I feel that most sleep assistants and other life-hacking tools are mostly placebo that give you the feeling you're in control, which is a state the human brain likes. Sadly, it also means that once you know the placebo effect, those tools become useless. :-)
jedberg 6y ago
You sort of have to go full sleep hygiene mode for it to work. I use flux, but I also cut all blue light after 10pm. I use 1850k lights (aka candlelight) throughout the house after 10pm. My phone is also yellow shifted and I watch tv yellow shifted too (by only watching from a computer with flux at night). All those things together made a huge difference in sleep quality.
- 6y ago

balola 6y ago

Lots of laptops and OLED phones flicker in low brightness, using this actually make it worse as your eyes strains quickyly from the combined effect, at least for me. I'm currently using Iris Pro in max brightness, in which the display doesn't need to flicker, the software still can dim the screen itself.

jack1243star 6y ago
Do OLED displays flicker? I thought it happens only with LED backlight panels that were dimmed using PWM, which was quite unpleasant when I switched from a CCFL one.
- balola 6y ago
  Most OLED displays use PWM, as the color dots are hard to control, PWM has no issue in this regard.

coldtea 6y ago

People said that, and flux and other apps came out. Then Apple added it too (and perhaps other OS makers). But there's this too - and increasingly more stories like it: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/12/191216173654.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/12/191216173654.h... https://time.com/5752454/blue-light-sleep/ https://time.com/5752454/blue-light-sleep/

joveian 6y ago
Interesting, thanks for sharing those articles. redshift lets you adjust brightness in addition or instead of color temperature (there is a Windows version but it is command line only, doesn't look like it supports macs and does not work with Wayland). Someone mentioned brightness a while back and I've been adjusting both since then but I'll try just adjusting brightness and see how it works. If nothing else, it is possible that warm color temperatures might end up being similar to the issue with flashlights where full spectrum lets you use a lower brightness than red light (of course, with flashlights there is also the issue that many "red" flashlights, even some that advertise as being night vision preserving, aren't in the right range to actually preserve night vision). It does seem like I could lower the brightness a bit more without the warmer color temperature. https://github.com/jonls/redshift https://github.com/jonls/redshift
- xy2_ 6y ago
  There's a GUI redshift for Windows: https://github.com/maoserr/redshiftgui/downloads https://github.com/maoserr/redshiftgui/downloads
shlant 6y ago
if anyone is interested, Michael from f.lux provided some great info in relation to the study the above links are referencing when it was originally posted on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21916679 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21916679

gentleman11 6y ago

Flux needs to decouple it’s dimming timings from your local day/night cycle. I don’t care if it’s light or dark out, if it’s between x and y time I want the screen dimmed; otherwise, I don’t want it dimmed.

derefr 6y ago
For a non-day-aligned f.lux to actually help you, you'd need to have blue-light filters on your windows, such that you aren't getting natural blue light during the day. Screens have only maybe 1/1000 the lux of daylight. Letting in even a little bit of daylight (e.g. through blinds) would completely swamp any effect from blue light on an LCD/LED panel.
- valesco 6y ago
  What about the inverse? It's dark outside, but it's 7pm and I'm not about to sleep.
- reportgunner 6y ago
  > blue-light filters on your windows Yes or good old fashioned curtains or window blinds.

thdrdt 6y ago

Well recent studies show that software like flux only does a little and maybe even nothing to help you sleep better. The problem is that we keep our brains active late at night and that's the reason why it is hard to get to sleep. For me alcohol is the one that messes with my sleep. The lack of deep sleep makes me feel tired the next day(s). Edit: an article about recent studies: https://time.com/5752454/blue-light-sleep/ https://time.com/5752454/blue-light-sleep/

ajuc 6y ago
Maybe it's placebo, but after installing flux I fall asleep at 22:00-23:00. Before I often stayed up till 01:00. I still read a lot on computer in the evening, but I get sleepy much earlier.
vladvasiliu 6y ago
Can confirm sibling's observation. I find it much easier to fall asleep when the light is redder. Even for example when reading a book, if there's a lot of bright light in the room I will have a much harder time falling asleep. I've noticed that if I wake up for some reason at night and turn the lights on, if the light is bluer it will tend to wake me up completely, whereas a red light will allow me to stay "sleepy" and fall back asleep quicker.
Pyramus 6y ago
> The problem is that we keep our brains active late at night and that's the reason why it is hard to get to sleep. You are correct, however, that's a confounding problem. The (relatively) weak effectiveness of software solutions is due to blocking only a small percentage of blue light from a (relatively) strong light source (assumes short distance to screen, low ambient light at night). Blue light (and even some green light frequencies) is a hardwired stimulus feeding into your circadian rhythm. Blocking all blue and green frequencies, e.g. with simple welding glasses, is effective in supporting the creation of melatonin. But again, having enough melatonin in your system is a necessary but not sufficient condition to be able to sleep.
shlant 6y ago
if anyone is interested, Michael from f.lux provided some great info in relation to the study the Time article is referencing when it was originally posted on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21916679 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21916679

_nalply 6y ago

Reducing the light temperature is not enough. After 8 pm I turn off all harsh lights in my home and avoid things which excite me. Evenings I often tell my wife to postpone lively debates to the next day. All this makes my body ready for sleep and at 10 pm I feel relieved to close my eyes and dozing off. I have accepted that I seem to need more sleep than others. Usually after 8 to 9 hours of sleep I wake up on my own.

fsflover 6y ago

Redshift is the free alternative for GNU/Linux.

jabirali 6y ago

I also have a positive experience with Redshift, and use it on both computers and phones at night. Since I live in the north, I also have good experience with "rubber curtains" that block out all sunlight at night in the summer, and a "wake-up light" that simulates sunrises in the winter.

reportgunner 6y ago

> Once you use it, you can't go back. I did and I went back. It does very little you use night mode everywhere. It might help with white backgrounds but I remove or avoid those even during daylight. I do use the 'Eye saver' mode on my smartphone, but only to visually let me know that it's after midnight.