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I don't think you are reading the parent poster. Tokyo was probably rubble in 1945 then it re-invented itself into a world-class city. Hong Kong was (probably

by csomar 6y ago

I don't think you are reading the parent poster. Tokyo was probably rubble in 1945 then it re-invented itself into a world-class city. Hong Kong was (probably still is for now) a world class city for the rich and the free and now is on path to become a hell-hole for both. Cities swing through a pendulum of up and down. SF might be going to ruins but it'll be back. It might have to reach rock-bottom first before re-inventing itself though.

9nGQluzmnq3M 6y ago
Property is extremely expensive in HK, so it's long been a hell-hole for the poor: https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2017/05/the-coffin-homes-of-hong-kong/526881/ https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2017/05/the-coffin-homes-o... That said, the city does not have visible homeless or crime problems of most large US cities, partly because you can legally get a coffin for $300/month.
- rtlfe 6y ago
  > That said, the city does not have visible homeless or crime problems of most large US cities. Why not? Are there support systems to give people shelter and reduce the need for crimes of desperation?
  - 9nGQluzmnq3M 6y ago
    Hong Kong has an imperfect but subsistence-level dole system (CSSA), coffin house style bad but cheap housing (notably absent in SF), less of a drug problem, and a more functional system for taking care of the mentally ill.
    - eru 6y ago
      Yes, it would be interesting to see what would happen if SF legalised housing again.
kgin 6y ago
Tokyo absolutely took advantage of that clean slate, but San Francisco's issues don't seem to be related to physical infrastructure.
- presentation 6y ago
  You kidding me? Physical infrastructure is absolutely central to the issue. Demand to live in SF skyrocketed but the city responded by resisting any expansion of its housing stock. To claim that doesn’t have an impact on the affordability in the city, which in turn affects whether or not people can afford to live in a home there, is madness.
  - kgin 6y ago
    https://medium.com/land-buildings-identity-and-values/what-is-the-secret-to-tokyos-affordable-housing-266283531012 https://medium.com/land-buildings-identity-and-values/what-i... > Tokyo could be the rare example of a once expensive city that successfully managed the difficult political process of removing planning restrictions in order to achieve affordable housing. They didn't achieve affordable housing as a result of a clean slate. In fact housing in Tokyo was insanely expensive during the 80s. It wasn't until zoning restrictions were changed in the 90s that prices came back down. It's about the laws, not about having to contend with old buildings.

by csomar 6y ago

9nGQluzmnq3M 6y ago

Property is extremely expensive in HK, so it's long been a hell-hole for the poor: https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2017/05/the-coffin-homes-of-hong-kong/526881/ https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2017/05/the-coffin-homes-o... That said, the city does not have visible homeless or crime problems of most large US cities, partly because you can legally get a coffin for $300/month.

rtlfe 6y ago
> That said, the city does not have visible homeless or crime problems of most large US cities. Why not? Are there support systems to give people shelter and reduce the need for crimes of desperation?
- 9nGQluzmnq3M 6y ago
  Hong Kong has an imperfect but subsistence-level dole system (CSSA), coffin house style bad but cheap housing (notably absent in SF), less of a drug problem, and a more functional system for taking care of the mentally ill.
  - eru 6y ago
    Yes, it would be interesting to see what would happen if SF legalised housing again.

kgin 6y ago

Tokyo absolutely took advantage of that clean slate, but San Francisco's issues don't seem to be related to physical infrastructure.

presentation 6y ago
You kidding me? Physical infrastructure is absolutely central to the issue. Demand to live in SF skyrocketed but the city responded by resisting any expansion of its housing stock. To claim that doesn’t have an impact on the affordability in the city, which in turn affects whether or not people can afford to live in a home there, is madness.
- kgin 6y ago
  https://medium.com/land-buildings-identity-and-values/what-is-the-secret-to-tokyos-affordable-housing-266283531012 https://medium.com/land-buildings-identity-and-values/what-i... > Tokyo could be the rare example of a once expensive city that successfully managed the difficult political process of removing planning restrictions in order to achieve affordable housing. They didn't achieve affordable housing as a result of a clean slate. In fact housing in Tokyo was insanely expensive during the 80s. It wasn't until zoning restrictions were changed in the 90s that prices came back down. It's about the laws, not about having to contend with old buildings.